Concours D'Elegance

[Joe C.]

After reading a post (Restoration vs Preservation) from a new member, I began thinking about the rationale of our organization.

What is our purpose?

On the one hand, we like to say "drive 'em" , but on the other, we insist on restoring these old warriors with antiquated technology. Are we condemning our colleagues to predictable unreliability, and endless maintenance?

As unpalatable as it may sound, it is an undeniable fact that most of our cars, with the exception of certain historically significant examples, are "a dime a dozen".

Let us remember what this "Corvette Hobby" really is, a HOBBY---------nobody's gonna get rich from owning an old American car that was produced in the tens of thousands. RESTORE YOUR CAR AS CLOSE TO ORIGINAL AS YOU CAN, but embrace modern technology whenever you can.

TRUST ME the paint issue will be resolved in the not too distant future. Are they using nitrocellulose lacquer to paint Cords, Duesenbergs, Pierce Arrows shown at Pebble Beach?

[Chuck R.]

Re: I agree

Correct beauty is always in the eye of the thickest wallet holder

To me it's all about the HOBBY (and enjoyment) of rolling up the sleeves and getting my fiberglass bullet back out where it will get judged not on a field, but on the road.

The occational honks and thumbs up will be plenty good enough for me

Chuck

[Michael W.]

Ironically, you mention reliability

as being a 'fault' of older cars with older technology. Look further down the page for the thread discussing 'improving' ignition systems with pertronics or similar systems.

Points and condensers require maintenance but only very rarely leave anyone stranded. The addition of 'modern technology' ignition has introduced a whole new failure mode only partially offset by cell phones and AAA cards.

Why do people join the NCRS then moan about being 'forced' into restoration or preservation? It's your car, do what you like with it.

[Joe C.]

Re: Ironically, you mention reliability

Mike:

Yes, I can understand your argument about reliability. The old cars have a higher failure rate, but are more readily fixed by us "backyard mechanics". The newer cars, with ECMs/PCMs require more sophisticated diagnostics to fix. As long as they work, then they are flawless, but God forbid when a problem arises. That's why I will always be an advocate of carburetors rather than FI. I believe in KISS.
Now, the paint issue is a whole 'nother story. There is no adjustment/diagnostics required, it is a "set it and forget it" issue. BC/CC is just hands down better than lacquer, period. Besides my Corvettes, I have three other cars, which are always outside, exposed to the sun. They are painted with modern BC/CC finishes, and still look brand new, after three years of exposure to the weather.

[Larry S.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

Hey Joe I think this sums it up very well

"I am grateful to those who contribute to this Board, without whose help, the accurate and successful preparation of this project would not have been possible.

I enjoy working on my cars, and am always happy to pass along what I have learned. I believe that this Discussion Board reflects the true spirit of the NCRS, and is it's most valuable asset."

Sound familar
The reason I am a member is to support a group who is minding the history of our great cars and giving me the means to bring my car back to the condtion it was when it left the factory.then being able to be judged by my peers to see how well I have done at my goal.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Ironically, you mention reliability

with my 65 396 and the valve spring problem when i went on vacation with mrs clem i would take tools,spark plug hole air pressure connection,valve spring tool to change the springs on the road,rocker cover gaskets and hand cleaner. i met a few nice people along the road that let me use their air compressor to hold up the valve while i changed the valve spring. you may not believe this but i do not miss those days. i always had a good group of spectators attending my tech sessions.

[Joe C.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

Larry:

I am happy to see a faithful reproduction of my profile, but you have either not fully read, nor understood the full meaning of my post. If judges can take issue with paint, then what about copper spark plug seals? How about the exact chemical composition of the contents of the crankcase? How about the exact chemical composition of the coolant?

I am a pragmatist.

I enjoy helping folks restore their old warriors to their original configuration, but make no mistake about it, unless you have a certified 1967 L88,or a documented ZL-1, then you are dreaming if you think that you are going to get rich with your car. Drive it, don't abuse it but enjoy it.

[Gary Bishop]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

Just a question. Did you recently have your car judged and lost points for BC/CC? Not intended to be a flame. Just asking.

[Joe C.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

Gary:

No, I have never had my car judged, nor will I ever have my car judjed using the present criteria.

[Larry S.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

Me pesonally I am in it for the hobby,but the hobby for me is preparing my car for the current standards of judging.I joined the group because of there standards.

[Bill W.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

I enjoy taking worn out peices of junk & making them as close to being the way they were when new as possible.I enjoy taking a 30 year old steering coupler,spindle or axle shaft,and spending hours trying to duplicate the origional color or finish. I enjoy preserving the factory waves and fit of a 63 and the unusual things on a early 396. I enjoy restoring things. I dont care what there worth .Its a hobby .it makes me happy.. Other people should do what makes them happy ! Bill

[Mike M.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

larry: i couldn't have put it better. You would be what i consider an owner with the right attitude. after all, the PURPOSE of NCRS is clearly stated and those who don't buy into the JUDGED AS IT LEFT THE FACTORY philosophy are better off not having their cars judged by ncrs. mike

[Wayne P.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

Remember hobby! If you are here to make money you are in the WRONG place.

[Todd H 26112]

"Rationale"??? - WAS: Concours D'Elegance

"I began thinking about the rationale of our organization."

You want rationale?

Some things aren't supposed to be restored - that pesky pad where those numbers are stamped on engines is canonized as forbidden from what I can tell - Depending on what you do to 'restore' it - you might be labeled a forger. Same for the data plate. But feel free to add or modify numbers in the form of decals, bands, paint or ink or restamping soft metal parts. Don't have an original motor - tough. Don't have an original distributor, alternator or frame that's worth a darn - no prob, just get out the check book or get creative.

How 'bout safety. Seems brake hoses can be swapped to anything from your local parts store down the street. Full credit. But tires? I don't think so. Not considered safety equipment. And interestingly enough there is a mileage credit for 'driven' cars.

The preservation emphasis and historical correctness these days as well as the extremely excrutiating level of standard involving microscopes or rub-tests should you dare 'restore' something is impressive. Indeed I've seriously considered proposing a name change to NCPS or NCHS or at least NCrS. What happened to the 3rd word represented by NCRS? Yes I'm being a little tongue and cheek - but you used teh word 'rationale' so bear with me!

The emphasis has shifted to 'what' the standard is and away from 'how' to get to a given standard. And the 'what' part is at times unrealistic or simply out of touch w/ reality. If some people are actually going to argue for things like your lacquer paint or rub tests, fine - let 'em - the rest of us are moving on.

The hobby part is the capital 'R' part of NCRS for me. And somewhere mixed in there the legitimate driving of said cars too (but I don't need a club for that - save my competition organizers for a track or an AutoX).

The hobby part is interacting w/ other folks and Learning lots of info ranging from the trivial and mundane to the hands-on how-to and passing on info or stuff where you can. Swapping, selling or even giving away parts is a fun aspect of the hobby and a great way to help comrades (until supply/demand issues enter and it's about profit...) The Restorer Magazine is a fantastic publication - a great reflection on this particular 'originality' variant of the hobby - thus the term dues is a misnomber for me - it's the subscription cost. (I don't know how they divvy up the budget from the 100s of K of $ in dues alone but I'd sure expect the lions share to go to Restorer Magazine operations.

This little ol' online forum is also a bit of a return to those 'restoration' roots - or at least a good balance between the accurate historians and preservationists vs the greasy fingernail types w/ crappy cars in need of help. Hey BOTH are important to the hobby and NCRS.

Oh and trust me: I have already long ago resolved the paint issue all by myself (along w/ a few others!)

[Todd H 26112]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

What percent of the membership does? One percent? Maybe 2? Go figure.