Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels? *NM*

[Mike Cobine]

Interesting. 00055 was on eBay

in January about the 5th and was a saddle/saddle convertible.

[Sydney G.]

Re: Interesting. 00055 was on eBay

I'm not sure but you might mean #50 a 250 Saddle/Saddle roadster.
Syd

[Dick W.]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

And you wonder why the were called "quick fall off wheels"?

[Gordon Peterson #4961]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

Pat -

You're missing the point. I'm not talking about all 63's. I'm talking about this particular car only. One car.

Let's say that there were a dozen similar "special race-prepped" 63's earmarked for special people in 1963 (NO idea what this number might really be - I'm just speculating). And let's say that GM gave 5 of those special people a set of KO's to test on their cars. Then, if those cars still exist today, and it can be proven either through doc's or dated pre-August '63 photos that they were one of those few, then they should be allowed to show with them today. That would be 5 potential cars out of 21,513 cars. The other 21,508 cars? NO KO'S.

Pete

[David Van Weele]

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

Since it is now Sunday Morning and I just got on line I will add my two cents worth. I order my Z06 in the fall of 1962 and took delivery in June 1963. The car, whcih I still own, was built the forth week of May 1963. The car never had knock offs until I bought a set of repro ones in 1980. I put them on the car took a picture of it, thought shoot I am resorting this car back to the way I received it, took them off and sold them at Carlisle. I also received a letter from GM explaining that my complaint, which I did in the summer of 1963, about not receiving the KO wheels was between me and the dealer. In those days I was not as experienced as I am now and just let it drop.




My Z06

[David Van Weele]

Re: Saddle Tan/Firefrost/Firemist paint

Hey one more thing regarding the Bill Jensen car. The color he had sprayed on that car was not Caddy Firemist or Firefrost. I know for a fact and I have pictures to prove it. In 1964 I repainted my car 1963 Caddy Firemist (or Firefrost) Gold. This paint in 1964 cost me $125 a gallon, there was about 1" of metal flake (I was told it was real silver) in the bottom of the can. The color was as everyone said absolutely gorgeous. My father, liked the color so much he ordered a 1964 Sedan Deville in Firefrost (or Firemist) They change the name between years. When the car came in the color was completely different. I looked like there was a hint of green in the paint.

Some years later I repainted the car, mid 1970's, I order the paint from the same supplier that I used in 1964. I ordered the color by name ( I knew which one was correct at that time) after painting the car the color was all together a different color. I have pictures of my car in this color also. I hated it so much I never rubbed it out. The car stayed that color until I started my restoration around 1980. At the time I painted the car in the 70's I went back to the supplier of the paint and researched the formulars and found out the formula listed for the Firefrost/Firemist paint was the same as a Ford color, no wonder I hated the color. I told Bill this story but I am not sure he ever believed me.




My Z06

[Patrick H.]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

No, I'm not missing the point.

NCRS judges cars as per typical dealer delivery. In the case of these cars, that would be the minute they left the plant, since they didn't get the typical dealer delivery. So, no matter WHEN GM added them after they left the back door at St. Louis, whether 2 days later at the Tech Center or 3 months later under "special consideration" they don't count. Period. Even if they have a Zora-signed work order dated two days later from the Tech Center specifying installation of KO wheels. ANY form of documentation from post-St. Louis does nothing to prove the initial configuration of build.

At times GM took 340 horse cars and swapped FI units onto them at the Tech Center. Now, if you have proof can you bring the car to an NCRS meet with an FI unit and get full points? No. Your engine suffix still shows it was a 340 horse car.

Actually, they're better off restoring it to as-raced and going for the American Heritage award. Ex-race cars seem to be worth more $.

Patrick

[Gordon Peterson #4961]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

Whoa

Well, you've just made a lot of people with authentic (and correct) dealer-installed options (including prep and set-up) start to wonder about their situation, I'd guess.

Pete

[Patrick H.]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

"Whoa"?

Are you at all familiar with the judging process? I'm not trying to be cocky, just ask a question. I don't believe we've met so I have no prior knowledge what experience you might have.

The situation is plainly spelled out in each Judging Guide.

For example, my own 72 has a dealer-installed luggage rack. And yes, I lose points on it every time the car is judged. The exact points hit and what to expect are spelled out in the Judging Guide. It would be the same for a right hand mirror, dealer-installed floor mats, etc. Currently, dealer-installed pin striping would even cause a full deduction of all your paint points - even if you showed the nice 5x7 inch dealer add-on window sticker from your car.

Normal dealer prep and set-up should do NOTHING to alter the options of the car as installed in St. Louis.

If someone has read the guides and the Judging Reference manual, as anyone having their car judged should do, none of this should be a surprise whatsoever.

Patrick

[Mike Cobine]

Re: Interesting. 00055 was on eBay

On eBay, they had it listed as Corvette Sting Ray number 0055, the 55th one built.

I saved some pictures from the ad, but unfortuantely, none are of the VIN tag.

Equally unfortunate is that eBay doesn't let you search back that far.

[Michael H.]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

Correction: I think it was the clone car that Johnson and Morgan drove after Sebring and Daytona that had the Z06 and N03 added. That car later was raced by McLaughlin in Oklahoma if I remember correctly. Not sure what ever happened to the original Delmo Johnson car or the Salyer car.

[Richard S.]

Re: Proof.

In the August 1979 issue of Corvette Fever there is a story on 63 Z06 #8065 assembled Feb.1st,1963. That year it went to Bloomington owned by a Mr.Joe Bonus. He had purchased the car from Tom Turnas who had bought the car in Phoenix,Arizona four years earlier from the second owner and Tom had restored it. The original owner was an air force pilot and he bought the car at Schultz Chevrolet in Alpena, Michigan. Mr. Joe Bonus says the car came with two bar knock off wheels. The story says Tom Turnas obtained the bill of sale and dealer bill sheet making it one of the very few "documented" 63 Z06's. This documentation would seem to prove this car was delivered with two bar knock offs. Has anyone in NCRS ever seen or judged this car and seen the documentation?

[David Van Weele]

Re: Proof.

Yes I have seen this car but I recall the documentation. Mind gets fuzzy with age. I do remember questioning the wheels as being original. Are you correct on the year in the magazine?

[Sydney G.]

Re: Interesting. 00055 was on eBay

Mike,
I think that we are talking about the same roadster. I checked back and I recorded it about Dec. 27th, or 9 days before you and it was #50.
Syd

[Mike Cobine]

Re: Interesting. 00055 was on eBay

I think you are right. I found some other items I saved about it and had it listed as 50.