My NCRS Experience

[Philip C.]

Re: My NCRS Experience

Hi John F Iam sure you read the list of messages. I want to thank you for yours! and the other guys for theirs. I put a post in the other day 64 alu wheels. Like you its hard to get your view across in the way that its comes from the heart.Iam not as active in NCRS as I want to be. But Iam still here. I wish we could get off chicken "do" during judging. My car has this your car has that. Judge the car as it stands there today. Judge it against the manual not someones personal knowledge.The poor sit home and restores his car with the manual, brings it to a show and they judge it with personal knowledge on items not in the manual, whats the manual for? If its not in the manual it should be judged. If you want to tell the owner for his info fine. Previous Knowledge should not be part of the judging process!

[Philip C.]

Re: My NCRS Experience type 000

sSorrsorrsorry guys "should NOT" be judged (its late)

[George Daina]

Alex, you da man....

too many of us follow the Pied Piper and loose track of our own individuality. I could never understand the "build your car for someone elses approval" mentality.


I have applied for vanity plates and hope I can get either of these two: BYE BYE or VIPR ETR.

[Wayne W.]

Re: My NCRS Experience

The problem with that is that is the manual would look like the IRS code. It would be so big it would have to be delivered to the event by the book mobile, I personally think that there is too much information in the manuals, but I understand why it is so. There is too much reading involved in the judgeing process and it makes for a long day for most good knowledgeable judges. Some don't mind this, but others don't want to spend hours on one vehicle when there could be as many as ten to do in a day. The manual should be there for disputes and documentation but not a crutch for judges. Your suggested method would allow for bringing someone off the street handing him a judgeing manual and turning him loose on your car. I am sorry but that won't work. You can't write a good enough description of each item in the manual to substitute for the knowledge of experience. I would much rather a good knowledgeable person judge my car.

[George Daina]

Wayne, valid point, but there are holes....

in your logic. In the case of judging, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. On the whole, most judges seem to be competent and knowledgeable, but like anything else, there are a few bad apples that don't know their deriere from a hole in the ground. The trouble with judging is that a lot of judges are familiar with reproduction parts and when a car is judged that has the real mccoy item, points are deducted. The judging manual is pretty straight forward, but there always are exceptions to the rule, and because of time laspse, what may be correct on a car, is judged as incorrect.


For that reason, I build my 68 as I remember when I picked it up from Penske Chevrolet in Philly, in 1969. I don't have to please a judge, the only person I have to please is myself. I know what is correct on my car, and believe me, the 68 is full of exceptions to the rule, and I don't believe that there are enough competent judges out there to recognize these exceptions.

[Jerry]

I must confess..

I am surprised that so many of the people I admire and respect most on this board and in the NCRS have taken this position, i.e. build it , drive it, enjoy it. as opposed to "by the book" restorations. I evidently have been operating under the misconception that most, if not all, NCRS members were puritan in nature. I have owned eighteen Corvettes in my life and only one did I restore to the book guidelines, it was fun to do, fun to show but after that what's left, drive it, are you nuts ? It represented such a huge investment in time and dollars that a stone chip would have ruined the whole car in my opinion, wrapped too tight, you bet. I have painstakingly restored my 69 the way I wanted it, replacing parts correctly when needed but not replacing incorrectly numbered items with the correct ones just to be completely numbers matching, ( for instance, I won't pay $500.00 for a correct alternator ). I have avoided telling anyone here that my car will appear in the March issue of Corvette Fever and ESPNs Speedvision in March, for fear of anyone "picking it apart", like John F, who started this thread, the opinion of my friends and peers is important to me, unlike John, not enough to make me quit the hobby I have loved for twenty eight years. it appears I have underestimated, ( misread ), many of you and you have my sincere apology.


Jerry

[Paul R Ouzts]

Re: Actually Jerry................

I think thats the whole point of the NCRS.....if you insist on "original" parts, then go for it using their guidelines. The choice is ours. But it is nice to know that there is an entity committed to accurate "Preservation". I didn't spend that much money to have a car sitting perched in my garage - I bought it to drive. Anyone owning a 1950s - 1960s machine have a huge substantial investment are much more addicted to the hobby than I. I rarely see those early year cars on the road, but I hit the brakes and slobber on my shoes when one surfaces on the streets here in Houston. What a visual feast they are to watch.

[Roy S.]

Re: you're not listening!

Mike,


I did not miss the point. But made a very clear statement. Do not blame a bad Bloomington experience on NCRS. The two organizations are not the same. Which did he have the bad experience with NCRS or Bloomington? I would like to know? Survivor judging is not NCRS Bowtie or Flight and his bad experience mentioned NCRS officials but a Bloomington event. I do take it serious it my responsibility.

[Philip C.]

Re: My NCRS ExperienceType o Two

Sorry went to day school can't tpye at night. My last line in prev msg "Previous Knowledge" was meant having previous knowledge of the car from another show etc. Not knowledge of the model year. ( call it black balling) 2) The poor "guy" sits home.Now I know why Vinnie only let me cook.Phil`

[George Daina]

Jerry, don't get us wrong.....

just because we build 'em, drive 'em, enjoy 'em, that we don't follow by the book. We do, but only to certain limits, that is as long as the green is in the pockets, and when you need a 68 only instrument gauge bezel, and you have to shell out $500.00 to get it, and you know that there are more items to be purchased, like a pair of inner fenders for $240.00/pr used, you buy the inners, and a pair of upper A arm assemblies complete w/factory ball joints, still riveted, used, for $100.00/pr, so you buy those, anyway you get the picture. You make your purchasing decisions on a need basis, but you buy what the book calls for. And then, after all the items have been purchased, you build the car to your taste, orange peel vs. glass smooth paint, overspray vs. no overspray, new cam technology vs. old, modern aluminum heads vs. 30 year old closed chamber heads, Doug Nash 5 speed vs. Muncie 4 speed.


The end result, a 68 vette that looks good, road worthy, and would hold its' own in any rod & custom or NCCC car show.


The moral of this story; he who has da deepest pockets, wins Bloomington. The rest of us drive 'em and enjoy 'em.


One of my customers had Chuck Mallet restore his 64 GTO convertible. He dropped bucket loads of long green, but to him it was chump change. He has won every major concourse there is to win, Junior & Senior awards, has a plaque from Pontiac Motor Division stating that this is the finest example of a 64 GTO as it rolled off the assembly line. And there the GTO sits, in its own plastic coccoon. He was offered $75K and turned it down. What is left? Boredom, because he knows there is no competition, His car has set the standard, and all 64 GTO's are judged to those standards. So what does ol' Gib do? He parades people around the car, and letely, does not take the car out of the plastic enclosure, just parades people around and shows all his plaques and trophies. I immagine that there are vettes in the same state as Gib's GTO. What a sad sad way to end up. Ray Charles said it best


I'M BUSTED

[Peter Pescatore]

My NCRS Experience..I dont get it

John,


I really dont understand what your motivation was to get involved in this "hobby" and that is what it is a "hobby". One statement tells me it was a love since childhood and then the reason for dropping out was you did not get the "status" your vehicle deserved.Your goal seems to me was to win ribbons with a "classic car" does not sound like a love of the corvette itself or else "who cares!!" what 3 or 4 people think about your car for 15/30 minutes once a year or over a lifetime when it makes you happy by seeing it in your garage everyday knowing its yours.Life is too short John. Go to another meet if it is that important.. you went to 4 paints shops!The only thing I agree with you is the guy was a ahole for not shaking your hand. People like that you dont need to know anyway.


I own a 65 coupe and the only people that need to like my car are myself and my family and if I come close to break even when I sell..if I sell it thats great!


Its the fun that counts, if its the money or prestige..your missing the boat.

[Jeff]

Re: you're not listening!

Roy,


It took 6 months to decide to post his experience. It may take another 6 months to decide if it was NCRS or Bloomington.


JP

[Jack H.]

Different drummer....

I STRONGLY DISAGREE!!! We have more avenues in NCRS for car/owner recognition than any other place in all of Corvettedom. Nobody holds a 'Top Flight' gun to anyone's head. Flight is just ONE of several possible things to do with one's car and the others deserve equal consideration BEFORE an owner embarks on the campaign trail.


The Founders Award 'forces' you to get involved with all aspects of NCRS and put the car on the road and USE it. If you're into stock appearance with a 'robust' powertrain, you can have it. Our chapter asst judging chairman did Founders at Sun Valley with 396 coupe in full race drag (roller rockers, dry ice cooled fuel lines, race electronic ignition -- sucka dynos 625 HP at altitude in Denver!).


The Sportman Award completely divorces the participant from the in/out aspects of the Juding Field. Just own a Corvette, show up, display it and enjoy the day and the people!


I rankle when I hear folks talk about absolute 'right' and 'wrong' for these cars. If factory concours judging isn't your cup of tea, sobeit. NCRS has other equivalent outlets and it's not fair to rain on the other guy's parade based on your personal values. The club doesn't. That's why there's a spectrum of avenues open to all.

[Ron R.]

Re: Worried about our first NCRS event

Well about now, I'm scared to death. We are new members and our first show is coming up next week in Orlando and I don't know what to expect! My husband and I bought the car of our dreams a year ago (66 big block air coupe) and have been working on it ever since. Together we've spent more time and money on this car than I had ever imagined. We've also argued over some of the same setiments posted regarding restoration. I've pushed for the purist viewpoint and my husband, Ron, has taken the "it's meant to be driven and enjoyed" stand. Together we've compromised and made some conscious decisions that will prevent us from getting top flight -- base/clear paint; radial tires (although they're gold line radials!) - while we've shelled out the bucks for the $500.00 correct power break master cylinder, etc. on when it came to buying parts. We both love this car and she will remain a driver. Ron didn't want to have it judged and I insisted, thought it would be fun and give us the opportunity to learn more about the car. I hope I didn't make a mistake by entering, but even if the experience isn't good I'd never sell the car or drop the hobby based upon it. Theres too much of our heart and soul wrapped up in what we've done to ever discount it irregardless of what a "judge" has to say.

[George Daina]

What is there to worry about?.......

Absolutely nothing. This is your dream car, enjoy it, drive it, have fun. Judging is only a small aspect of owning a Corvette. Comaraderie between you and other members of the Covette community should be the biggest aspect of Corvette ownership.


Judging, take it with a grain of salt, or if you feel that that is a big part of Corvette ownership, study the deductions and attack and rectify the flaws and come back next year with a vengence, but remember the operative word:


FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN