Re: Can't see the pictures
I still can't but that could be a whole host of reasons. I'll check again later.
I still can't but that could be a whole host of reasons. I'll check again later.
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Re: Can't see the pictures
Send me your email address Mike. I'll send both pic's. (in the AM)Comment
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Re: Can't see the pictures
Send me your email address Mike. I'll send both pic's. (in the AM)Comment
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Re: price killed the Camaro
Here's a good example.
I ordered and purchased new, both a 2002 Corvette and 2002 Firebird TransAm cars. I ordered both cars with the most expensive options. Corvette with dealer discount came to $44,729.00 out the door. Firebird with dealer discount came to $40,323.00 out the door.Comment
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Re: price killed the Camaro
Here's a good example.
I ordered and purchased new, both a 2002 Corvette and 2002 Firebird TransAm cars. I ordered both cars with the most expensive options. Corvette with dealer discount came to $44,729.00 out the door. Firebird with dealer discount came to $40,323.00 out the door.Comment
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Re: Corvettes and Mustangs
There are so many different perspectives to honor in this great discussion. Each with it's own distinct direction and there in lies the rub.
GM's marketing and sales goals with the vette vs Ford's with the mustang are difficult to compare in general terms. Who are these cars for...the brand buyer, the performance enthusiast, the hot rodder, youth market, dyed in the wool vette guys, 'investors'. Each category has it's own distinct direction.
Across the brands, todays engineering is exponentially advanced compared to even decade ago. Styling and price make the difference with the non technical public.
The new mustang is indeed a head turner with an incredible resemblence to early cars. Just the name links it to the revolutionary design of the 60s. The lineage and legend coupled with embellished memory, combine to make it a hit. Ford's retro t-bird was a visual loser. The name, 'mustang' evokes images of a WW2 fighter plane or even a 'wild mustang', stallion of course, running across the windswept plains of the West. Corvette is a fast and compact fighting water craft from WW2. Camaro? what's that mean? Think it translates to "little friend". That's only if your bilingual.
While most of the discussion is within the evolution of the 'line', the market looks across the species. A 62 vette vs 62 buick. A 63 vette was out of this world and that style translates well even today. That's revolutionary
styling! With the intro of the 68 vette along comes the opel. It sure looked like a minature vette. The distinct styling across the brands began to meld. Today I hesitate to differentiate a vette from who knows what. Developing areodynamics leads all brands to a one style solution. The public runs the spectrum from being very shallow and non technical to the retentive soul bound tightly by details and logic. The biggest market comes from the shallower end.
The vette was always a showpiece for the GM brand. It provided some emotional link to the genetics of the accociated models. Maybe when the line ran short of v6s for the chevette, they dropped in a 350 vette engine. How many boats were refitted with 283 vette engines? Corvette conjured all sort of fantacies. GM knew that dreams are the fuel that keep us going. Achievement of dreams was secondary. Corvette fullfilled that niche. Lot of guys were saving up for a vette, went to buy it and ended up with a chevelle. A plus for GM as it kept the buyer in the family. Cobalt commercials to compensate for demise of the camaro and linked strongly to the genes of the corvette?
For kicks I would love to see GM come out with a 66 styled vette with 3 tail lights, fender flares, custom paint and late model running gear. As a sanctioned, original production car it would be sold out. Mabye an issue representing an earlier car would be made every 5 or 10 years. Imagine the salivating enthusiasts drooling on the order sheets placing deposits years in advance. How could this harm GM? Slur on the stylists? Someone tell me that the Aztec was not the result of the marketing guys raiding the drafting dept and running of with the preliminary drawings to start production.Comment
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Re: Corvettes and Mustangs
There are so many different perspectives to honor in this great discussion. Each with it's own distinct direction and there in lies the rub.
GM's marketing and sales goals with the vette vs Ford's with the mustang are difficult to compare in general terms. Who are these cars for...the brand buyer, the performance enthusiast, the hot rodder, youth market, dyed in the wool vette guys, 'investors'. Each category has it's own distinct direction.
Across the brands, todays engineering is exponentially advanced compared to even decade ago. Styling and price make the difference with the non technical public.
The new mustang is indeed a head turner with an incredible resemblence to early cars. Just the name links it to the revolutionary design of the 60s. The lineage and legend coupled with embellished memory, combine to make it a hit. Ford's retro t-bird was a visual loser. The name, 'mustang' evokes images of a WW2 fighter plane or even a 'wild mustang', stallion of course, running across the windswept plains of the West. Corvette is a fast and compact fighting water craft from WW2. Camaro? what's that mean? Think it translates to "little friend". That's only if your bilingual.
While most of the discussion is within the evolution of the 'line', the market looks across the species. A 62 vette vs 62 buick. A 63 vette was out of this world and that style translates well even today. That's revolutionary
styling! With the intro of the 68 vette along comes the opel. It sure looked like a minature vette. The distinct styling across the brands began to meld. Today I hesitate to differentiate a vette from who knows what. Developing areodynamics leads all brands to a one style solution. The public runs the spectrum from being very shallow and non technical to the retentive soul bound tightly by details and logic. The biggest market comes from the shallower end.
The vette was always a showpiece for the GM brand. It provided some emotional link to the genetics of the accociated models. Maybe when the line ran short of v6s for the chevette, they dropped in a 350 vette engine. How many boats were refitted with 283 vette engines? Corvette conjured all sort of fantacies. GM knew that dreams are the fuel that keep us going. Achievement of dreams was secondary. Corvette fullfilled that niche. Lot of guys were saving up for a vette, went to buy it and ended up with a chevelle. A plus for GM as it kept the buyer in the family. Cobalt commercials to compensate for demise of the camaro and linked strongly to the genes of the corvette?
For kicks I would love to see GM come out with a 66 styled vette with 3 tail lights, fender flares, custom paint and late model running gear. As a sanctioned, original production car it would be sold out. Mabye an issue representing an earlier car would be made every 5 or 10 years. Imagine the salivating enthusiasts drooling on the order sheets placing deposits years in advance. How could this harm GM? Slur on the stylists? Someone tell me that the Aztec was not the result of the marketing guys raiding the drafting dept and running of with the preliminary drawings to start production.Comment
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Re: Corvettes and Mustangs Aztek??
The Aztek was not the result of the Marketing guys raiding the drafting department.
It was styled to meet the Marketing needs which was a youthful vehicle that could be used for sports functions like carrying two bikes inside (that partially drove the rear end styling) and lots of head room, it was styled to meet the engineering and manufacturing criteria that made it easy to build with good quality and styled to meet purchasing/financial criteria to meet profit abjectives. Oh yea it was also styled to be built off the same platform as the minivans. Styling beauty was not the driving critia. All this led it down the path to where it ended up. No one was there to stop the train. Same thing almost happened with the LaCrosse except Lutz was there in the middle of the tracks.Comment
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Re: Corvettes and Mustangs Aztek??
The Aztek was not the result of the Marketing guys raiding the drafting department.
It was styled to meet the Marketing needs which was a youthful vehicle that could be used for sports functions like carrying two bikes inside (that partially drove the rear end styling) and lots of head room, it was styled to meet the engineering and manufacturing criteria that made it easy to build with good quality and styled to meet purchasing/financial criteria to meet profit abjectives. Oh yea it was also styled to be built off the same platform as the minivans. Styling beauty was not the driving critia. All this led it down the path to where it ended up. No one was there to stop the train. Same thing almost happened with the LaCrosse except Lutz was there in the middle of the tracks.Comment
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Understatement of the year.
"Styling beauty was not the driving criteria."
Come on. You have to try very hard to make something that butt-ugly! This was no accident. I think the "driving criteria" was to make a vehicle with breathtaking hideousity.Comment
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Understatement of the year.
"Styling beauty was not the driving criteria."
Come on. You have to try very hard to make something that butt-ugly! This was no accident. I think the "driving criteria" was to make a vehicle with breathtaking hideousity.Comment
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Re: Understatement of the year.
Of it was easy, Jerry. Ever see a 1990 Pontiac LeMans?
Take a big chainsaw, slice it horizontally and straight down across behind the seats, then lift the top and pull the ends out. Graft in filler and you turned a mini-car LeMans into a maxi-car Aztek.Comment
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Re: Understatement of the year.
Of it was easy, Jerry. Ever see a 1990 Pontiac LeMans?
Take a big chainsaw, slice it horizontally and straight down across behind the seats, then lift the top and pull the ends out. Graft in filler and you turned a mini-car LeMans into a maxi-car Aztek.Comment
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No way would that be as ugly as an Aztek. *NM*
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No way would that be as ugly as an Aztek. *NM*
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