Flight Judging

[Jerry]

The flight judging guidelines state that you need at least 10% originality to be eligible for any condition points. In the situation where you have a basecoat clearcoat paint, can the 10% rule be achieved by doling out things like headlamp bezzles, door jambs, and sills, hinges and areas around the hinges, etc.? Thanks, Jerry

[Robert C.]

Re: Flight Judging

Jerry, Do you think that would add up to 10% of the entire painted surface? I don't know and you won't know either until you have it judged. I would take the attitude that I was going to get a full deduct for the paint. Then, I would work on other areas to make up for those lost points. Really work hard to get your " operations " part 100%. Remember the 10 bonus points. There are lots of places you can make up for the loss and still get a top flight.

[Jerry]

Re: Flight Judging

Bob,I'm not sure it would be based on the question of how many square feet of gloss versus dull. I would think there is more to it than that. Who knows I may be wrong. It definitely wouldn't be the first time and most surely not the last. I've been through one chapter meet and two regionals and scored 96+ percent. I am well aware of the total deduction so that's why I'm trying to salvage part of the originality. I'm looking for that 97+ percent and p.v. My ultimate goal is to work toward the Duntov award. Jerry

[Jack H.]

Governing precidence....

You're touching on an area I personally consider to be a weakness in the NCRS system -- order of precidence. We have Judging Guides specific to a given model year/car division, then we have a multi-section Judging Reference Manual. Each is chock full of helps, hints, rules and proceedures. BUT, there is no omnibus document that says who, what, when, where governs in case of a conflict.

Example:

Section 4, Standard Deduction Guidelines.

Rule 12, Altered Cars; provides fixed originality deductions for a number of items that include Change of Interior Color or Fabric (50%). Then, Rule 14, Added or Deleted Options mandates a full deduction for the 'detectable addition OR deletion of any regular production vehicle option'. Now, if a car's factory original trim tag ('63 and later Corvette) calls out standard black vinyl upholstery and we see the car in a bona fide black leather configuration, what do we do? There is equal precidence for the judge to take a full deduction (Rule 14 -- owner inspired RPO addition) AND to exact a 50% originality only deduction (Rule 12 -- change of interior color/fabric).

In the case raised by this thread (selectively clear coating the exterior), I see another contention possibility. Yes, Section 3, NCRS Flight Scoring System; Rule 11, 10% Originality Rule, implies one 'could' get associated condition points on a car that was selectively clear coated with the burden of proof upon the owner to show 10%, or more, of the external surface is NOT clear coated (arduous burden, but we have similar rule in BowTie where paint surface coverage in terms of percentage is cited).

BUT, the Catch-22 is most Judging Guides use looser language requiring a FULL deduction for the 'obvious' use of clear coating. The key operative here is 'obvious'. This leaves the discretion up to the judge NOT the owner.... One could take the position, defendably, that regardless of how much surface area is clear coated, if it's detectable and 'obvious' to the judges in any degree, a full deduction is required....

Two bottom lines here:

(1) Any first term law student learns quickly in contract classes to write an

'out clause' covering the event contract terms are found (or deemed) to

conflict with each other. We have little/no such savvy in our current

rule system and this could be improved upon. I've found NCRS management

is fair minded and always ready/willing to compromise with an even hand

based on rules of fair play, so such may not be needed (appears it hasn't

in +25 years)....

(2) Why on God's green earth would one want to 'checkerboard' the exterior

surface of his/her upscale classic Corvette restoration paint job with

clear coat 'sploches' just to skirt a judging rule???? Seems to me you

either do it one way or the other and live with the consequences....

and the owner

[Roy S.]

Re: Flight Judging

Jerry I thought someone else would pick up on this and answer your question but it appears they have missed the key. The following is a quote from the reference manual-- "In order for an item or area to be scored on condition, it must first be judged and scored on originality. If, after scoring, the remaining credit is less than 10% of the assigned originality points (deduction is greater than 90%), that item or area shall not be judged on condition and will be scored as a full deduction in the condition column. In judging line-item sections that cover several different parts, this will apply and affect those components so judged, individually."-- The part you need to understand is the very last sentence.-- "In judging line-item sections that cover several different parts, this will apply and affect those components so judged, individually."-- This means that yes you can receive points for your head lamp bezel, door jamb, etc. But when broken down as you wish those points you receive will only be for those items. In other words if you get 4 originality points you could get 4 condition points provided originality and condition were waited equally. This also means that you could get no condition points for the other items that had 100% clear because they would not qualify for the 10% rule. Bottom line it will not work.

I hate to always seem like the bearer of bad news but as the appointed keeper of the standard, there comes a time when I must.

Roy Sinor