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I've been waiting on the upcoming new edition of the C3 judging manual since November and still waiting.............Any word when I might expect it?
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Re: C3 judging guide - when ?
Mark,
Didn't they just come out with the third edition for 68-69 a short while back?
Are you telling me now that there is going to be a fourth edition?
Kurt # 26406 -
Re: C3 judging guide - when ?
Mark,
It's my understanding that it will be released after the National Convention. In order to minimize confusion it is protocol to do it that way. That way, we will not prepare a car for National Convention judging and find the manual changes a short time before. There is no perfect time to introduce a new manual but the spring and early summer would be the worst possible time.Comment
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Re: C3 judging guide - when ?
I wonder if there will be many significant changes... I've been using the current one for my resto and I hope I won't have to go redo too many pieces.Comment
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Re: C3 judging guide - when ?
I'm years away from getting mine judged. That said, I ordered it back in November / early Dec, because I wanted to see what they were looking for. I have my motor out and I'm doing some major work to it.
Perhaps it would be good to post anticipated revision dates with the description of the manual. Oh well, I will get my car running with non-correct parts so I can enjoy driving it and worry about the originality some other time.Comment
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Re: If I were a cartoonist...
I would draw a cartoon with NCRS types looking at a new judging guide with the old one on the floor, ragged looking with a brand new looking early Corvette and the owner saying something like "it's all wrong according to the new guide!" His eyes would be bulding, with steam coming from his head and very tense looking and hair standing straight up. Oh...he wouldn't have much hair to stand either.Tom Russo
78 SA NCRS 5 Star Bowtie78 Pace Car L82 M2100 MY/TR/ConvComment
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Re: C3 judging guide - when ?
My thoughts exactly. I was in midst of restoring my 68 to the 2nd Edition only to find that a 3rd Edition had been printed. Talk about hitting a moving target, what gives??
KurtComment
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Re: C3 judging guide - when ?
The 3rd edition of the 68-69 TIM & JG was released in 2001. 5 years ago!Dick WhittingtonComment
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Re: C3 judging guide - when ?
Thank you for pointing that out Dick, but can you understand how difficult it is to associate any form of credibility to somehting that keeps changing. Some of us spend a great deal of money trying to appease the NCRS Judging Gods only to find that the rules of the game keep changing. One minute something is correct and is used as the standard and the next minute it is not. I personally know of one gentleman who was a Corvette Judge and stopped judging because hge lost faith in the standard.
Why so many revisions? The Bible should be the Bible
KurtComment
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From what I've heard... even the Bible has
...several interpretations that keep changing from time to time...Comment
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Re: C3 judging guide - when ?
Interesting post! If you go back in the archives, you'll find strongly-expressed opinions by others that ask "why don't they hurry up and change the manual to reflect what our further research has indicated is more correct?" I've chaired two of the 61-62 judging manual revisions, and what we try to do is reflect the ongoing research that we do on every original car that surfaces. This includes trying to determine running changes throughout the year. Ultimately,we have people on both sides, from "why is there a moving target" to "why are they so slow to change?" Tough to satisfy both groups!Comment
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Re: C3 judging guide - when ?
I agree. I would rather the NCRS be known for keeping up with and communicating changes with respect to what's correct. Even the Bible is evolving with new translations. So, too, the NCRS. I favor the updates and revisions. It is in line with what has become known and discovered since the previous editions, improvements over the last. We should applaud those who put their research efforts into the judging guides. That has got to be time consuming.Comment
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Re: C3 judging guide - when ?
And we need to be thankful for all the owners of unrestored original Corvettes, for without these cars, there would be no need for revised manuals.
I currently have two '71 LS-6 coupes, one for all practical purposes has been partially restored (engine & chassis), the other unrestored with some aftermarket bolt on items (tops, wheels, exhaust), the cars are one month apart in production, and I see several differences.Comment
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Re: C3 judging guide - when ?
Having been a participant in several revision teams over the last 20 years, I have almost come to believe that the more we learn about these cars, the less we know. As the Reverend Mike stated in his post, just pin pointing the running changes is very hard. We also have a problem with volunteers. Not enough and probably half of the ones that do volunteer never contribute.
You never finish a revision. It is a continous evolution. I have restored many makes of cars in the past 40 or so years. I did my last F..d Model A about 20 or so years ago. The Model A club has just come up with a new revision of over 50 changes. A car over 50 years old and very simple compared to what we are judging and yet they found that many changes.
I know it can be flustrating but in our never ending quest to accurately reflect, in the TIM & JG, what the car was as it left St. Louis dictates that we periodically revise the manualsDick WhittingtonComment
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I agree....
It is a situation of....the more you know, the less you know about the cars. 68 in particular is that way. The individual looking to make there car correct needs to look at a lot of cars, talk to a lot of people and let the car also talk to them. Don't go changing anything unless you know for certain it is not correct. Better to leave it alone.
Running changes are hard to nail down. Changes for instance regarding the inside door handles on 68 corvette, I am sure there is overlap in this transition. Or headlight lids on 68. For the most part I have seen rounded headlight adjuster posts on 68 regardless of headlight size. But, on occassion I see a later style headlight with the pointed headlight adjuster posts that looks very original on an un-hit original looking car?? Hmmm, makes me wonder. Do you tell the person that there headlights were replaced at some time in the past??
When did 68 start using a rubber external window wipe? Hmmm, I have found remnents of it on a few doors that I have collected over the years but it is not shown in the assembly manual and I have not seen it in any technical bulletin that I have. I have talked to some people with late original cars and they don't have them on there cars?? Hmmm. Where does it all end?
Lately I have been looking at universal joints. From my understanding there were two suppliers of U-joints. Did they both use the same castings. Were both of them suppling the assembly line. When did they start to shop peen the trunion? Shot peening disfigures the trunion and makes it look all nasty and hard to read the numbers on the joint. I have seen original looking U-joints with the little boss for a grease fitting and some without the boss for the grease fitting. I have some that were shot peened and some that were not shot peened. What was being used?? Hmmm? So far on a 68 I can say this about U-joints....1) The trunion may or may not have a boss for a grease fitting. 2) The trunion may or may not have been shot peened. 3) None had grease fitting and none were drilled for grease fittings. 4) The seals where made of black rubber that was laminated to a steel ring. You may find modern U-joints that have a black rubber seal but you more than likely will not find one that has the black rubber fused to a steel ring. It will be very hard to narrow this down any further than this. Just my opinion also.
Have as much fun with it as possible. TerryComment
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