Need escrow service advice and more please...

[Greg L.]

I'm looking at purchasing a vehical in the US and importing it into Canada and could use some advice so that I don't get burnt on the deal.

I know all about what US and Canada customs needs so that is not a concern. What I am concerned about is loosing my hard earned cash due to some con artist.

One question I have is about your vehical title system. I understand that if there is a lien on the vehical that it will show on the title and the only way to get a clean title is pay off the loan...correct? If the seller needs my money in order to pay off the loan in order to get a clear title what is stopping him from just taking my money, not paying off the loan and telling me to get lost? You see in Canada lein info is not on any vehical paper work. You do a S/N search with your bank and if there is a lein it will show up. In this senario you would make a certified cheque out to the seller AND the bank that the loan was with and you could be sure that that the seller couldn't take your money and run. Is there any way to do protect yourself like this in the US?

The other question I have is about using an escrow service. The seller that I am communicating with now wants to use an escrow service because of some issues with his ex-wife and he gave me a link to an escrow site. This is it. http://www.escrow.com Has anyone ever heard of this particular one? I feel a little uneasy about dealing with this guy because I have never purchased a vehical like this before and all the talk of fraud these days has me quite paranoid. His offer to use an escrow service made me feel better intill the gears in my head started spinning and I wondered if this wasn't some site that he or some friends generated so that you would think your money is safe but in reality it was just a new type of fraud. He said that he would pay for the service and that "you won't have any commitment until you receive and inspect the car. They can also inspect the vehicle here before I ship it." Prior to this I told him that I would fly down and drive it back. He says that he is an "airplane pilot for United" which I thought was odd because I've never heard of a pilot describe himself as an "airplane pilot"...it's always been just pilot. I've also asked if he has a better number that I can reach him at and a good time to call and he never answered. He did however say that he would call me to "discuss the terms".

Maybe I'm just paranoid and maybe he just wants to sell it with out his other half knowing about it or maybe he is a really good con artist.....what do you all think? I really do want this vehical but I can be a little too trusting at times too. Any suggestions?

Oh FYI, the vehical is under valued by I'd say 15-20% so it's not your typical ebay 67 L71 with a buy it now price $6000.

Thanks guys.

Greg Linton
#45455

[Harmon C.]

Re: Need escrow service advice and more please...

GReg
Each state may be different and I did not see where the car now is. In Ohio the title has the loan recorded on the front side and needs to be canceled or signed off by the loan holder(the bank)to be CLEAR. Ask to see a picture of the title front and back of the title then you will see who owns the car and loans recoreded on it.I pick up cars and pay cash in person myself. I have went to banks and payed off loans with the seller to get the title. You should have someone in the area of the car check out the seller the paperwork and the car it would be money well spent for you.

Lyle

[Verle R.]

Re: Need escrow service advice and more please...

Greg,

From your description I can understand why you are apprehensive.

Talk to your bank. I suspect an escrow service can be arranged between your bank and the seller's bank, that way both are protected.

Personally, I would recommend you fly down and inspect the car first. That way you know what you are getting. A second recommendation would be to get someone from this board or someone who is an NCRS member and is knowledgable in the cars you are buying to go inspect the car for you.

You can't be too careful today with internet purchases.

Some lending institutions require a lien to be recorded on the title. Just because the title has no lien on it does not mean there is no lien on the car. Specifically ask if it has a clear title, get a signed release, a signed receipt for the amount of sale and transfer to title to your name as soon as possible. That way you are in the clear and the seller can be charged with fraud.

I would still personally go, look at the car, make the purchase and take posession at that time.

Just my opinion.

Verle

[Larry S.]

Re: Need escrow service advice and more please...

If I was you I would be asking for a copy of the title showing who the lien holder is, Have the seller contact the lien holder with your name and his account number giving them permission for you to find out what the payoff is to the loan,and how long that pay off amount is good for.

When paying for the car you should be paying the seller with a certified check made out to the lien holder for the amount of the outstanding loan.

A problem could arise if you pay him in full for the car and he doesn't submit payment to the lien holder, Lienholder still owns the car, and legally he doesn't really own it, he only owns the equity in the car. He would be defaulting on his loan. But you would be purchasing a car that's owned by a bank.

As for the ex wife or soon to be ex wife. Depending on what state he is in. Although her name may not be on the title she may be part owner of the car.

Use caution, and I would not say you are being paranoid, I would say your doing your due diligence to make sure your not getting taken for a ride.

[Larry S.]

Re: Need escrow service advice and more please...

I forgot to add, one check was going to the bank for what he owes on the car and the other check goes to the seller for the equity he owns in the car,

As for the issues with his ex wife,The car may have been considered an asset that during there divorce decree she was given part ownership to , I dont know what you would have to do at that point.

I am not saying to walk away, Just understand the risk of the deal

This sounds like one you would want to settle up in person not a distant deal.

[Christopher R.]

Re: Need escrow service advice and more please...

You're not being paranoid. You're being very sensible. But why are you trying to do this yourself? The techniques talked about here will probably work. You'll probably be OK. But why take that risk? There are long established ways to do what you propose. Hire a local (to the seller) attorney. Let him take care of all this stuff.

How much are you spending here? It wasn't that long ago that that was what a house cost. And when you bought a house, you hired an attorney (or the mortgagee did).

[Jack H.]

Study/read the terms of escrow!!!

Most who supply escrow services take a VERY conservative view in order to legally protect themselves. By this I mean the mechanism for releasing escrowed funds EITHER to the seller or back to the buyer, is the written release of BOTH parties.

In the event there's a dispute between buyer and seller, it's common for the escrow party to simply 'sit' on the funds, DESPITE the terms of any existing contract, and await the FINAL decision of an appropriate court of law! In the case here, an international sale/contract, that could take YEARS!!!!

[Michael S.]

Re: Need escrow service advice and more please...

Ask the seller if the title he has with "no lein" is the original title or a replacement title? Many a "desperate" husbands/wifes selling a car during a divorce have conviently lost the original title with a lein recorded and applied for a replacement title that may or may not have the lein properly recorded.

OR

The title they will present to you upon sale is an older title with no lein recorded that is NOT the current title recorded/registered with the state DMV.

Have the seller provide you with a faxed copy of what he/she says is the current title and then YOU call the state DMV in which the car is registered and confirm this title/number is the current legal and recoreded title.

Above all, if you CAN afford a Corvette you CAN afford the time and expense to personally go look at the car!

[Larry Poropat]

Airplane pilot?.

I agree, that doesn't sound right at all. It all smells bad to me. It shouldn't be that hard to find out if he is really an "airplane" pilot. You already know he is willing to cheat his wife/ex. Ask somebody from this board to check it out and check that person out before you tell him where it is.
(Does it sound like I've been screwed before?)
Larry

[Michael H.]

Re: Need escrow service advice and more please...

Greg,

You may be able to find information on your sellers current pilots license at www.landings.com. His name should be listed if he holds a current pilots license.

[Chuck G.]

Re: Need escrow service advice and more please...

Where are you located in Canada, and where is the car located in the USA?

In every instance where I've bought or sold a car with a lien on the title, I have gone to the bank that holds the lien, with the buyer/seller, paid off the lien, gotten a letter from the bank that the loan is paid off, and then gone to the state Motor Vehicle Administration and done the title work.

An international transaction like this? I'd get an attorney in the USA. I'd also deal with certified funds only. Something smells here. Chuck

[Michael H.]

Better Link To "Landings"

Here's a direct link to "Pilots License" lookup. Name and state should provide results.

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*87822735!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/certs-pilot.html

[Grant W.]

Re: Need escrow service advice and more please...

Greg before you spend ONE RED CENT or One Canadian Penny. Go to the border at the US customs and aquire an import document. Ask what all info you needed and go back later with vin number and a copy of the title and relative info, US customs will do a search for liens or anything funny on the car. In 3 days go back and see what they have to say. Yea or nadda!! Yea and you get the US stamp of approval to take it across the border. If the seller doesn't want to give you the info then the DEAL STINKS AND WALK AWAY!!!!!K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid. Not that you are stupid but when its too good to be true then walk away.......I have a 68 L88 for sale 10 Grand!!! Just joking. As Joe would say NOT FOR SALE!! If you don't have access to the import document then let me know as I'm going across this Sat and get the document for you. Let me know. Grant

[Greg L.]

Re: Need escrow service advice and more please...

Thanks so much for all of your advice guys but I think this whole deal stinks. There is more to it than what I have said...mainly in the way he responds in his e-mails. I found a site today that tells of what to look for in internet fraud/e-mails and after reading it I see that his e-mails have almost every red flag so it was quite odd to say the least!

The funny thing though is that the site said that they(fraud artists) will ask that you use an escrow service that they have used in the past but it's not a legit escrow service. It's one that they made up to look legit so once you send the money it's gone. The way to call the guys bluff is to use a different escrow service than he chose and they all recommend using escrow.com ...what is really odd and kinda makes me think that he is sincere is that THAT is the site that he want's to use!

I'm going to play his game for a bit and feel him out but I'm sure that he will catch on when I start asking for title copies and such! Rest assured, I will not buy a vehical sight unseen and have no intention letting him ship it to me. I will be driving any vehical back or to a secured storage until spring.

I'll try the S/N thing with US customs but at this point I'm not even convinced that he even owns this car and that he could have just copied and pasted someone elses ad...yes I found out that that is done too!

Oh I also did a pilot search and he doesn't show up either...

For anyone interested in the site I was looking at today about internet fraud here is the link. http://www.carbuyingtips.com/fraud.htm There is a lot of info in it and it and something that you might find helpfull one day because it really opened my eyes!

[Richard S.]

Re: Need escrow service advice and more please...

Greg: I ran the pilot search on myself and some friends who also fly and none of us show up either. When I re-imported a Corvette from Canada it made it thru customs just fine but the Wonderbar radio was missing. Turns out the seller had placed the origional radio in a box in the trunk and that is a customs no no. Since the radio was not attached to the car customs removed it and sent it back to the seller and then let the car go on thru the border.