Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$?$?$

[Jacob A.]

I am doing my first body off restoration of a 57 Corvette. Whether I take it for judging or not, I want the next guy to have the option without having to re-paint the car etc....

I planned on doing the paint myself. I am 500 hours into the body off personally and 100 hours to friends! I bought almost everything to do the paint myself including a nice air compressor. Most everyone told me that if I was going to have close to 100 grand tied up into a car and its restoration, the paint better be immaculate, as this is a large selling point.

This scared me, so I did research and found the best body-shop/paint man I could. I have waited 6 months for my appointment. He does 1 to 2 cars a year. I am going to be into him for anywheres from 10 to 20 grand + ! His first bid was 10 - 15 based on pictures, and after the car is now in his shop, he figures it may be as ridiculous as 20, and "can I pay for that?" he asks.... Well, honestly not really... but I will figure it out some-how... he has agreed to let me do a little more prep work under his guidance, and that will save me some dough.

Is this guy watching Barrett Jackson and thinking that the cost of paint should be going as through the roof as Barrett Jackson Prices.....or is 20 grand for paint and body work these days actually correct?

I personally stripped 85% of the paint off the entire car with a razor blade and delivered him a bare tub with doors hinged, a radiator core support, and one headlamp installed. Thats it... the rest of the car was totally stripped Decklid, tankcover, Trunk Hood etc..... Shouldn't that have saved me some money?

What do you guys pay for a Top Flight Paint Job and Body Work?

Granted all cars are different, my car has only been bumped in the right rear once, and a front right tire fell off at speed once. THe entire drivers side is accident free!!! There are usual stress cracks for a 50 year old car. He claims it may take 200 hours to do the body work and 100 to paint it, but it could be more than that!!! He said if he gets to around 400 hours it will be 20 grand plus supplies!!!! He offered to let me take the car back.... what should I do?

Help Please!!!! disillusioned first time body off restorer Jacob....NCRS # 40987

here is a pic of her taken on the way to the body shop.

[Wayne P.]

Re: Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$

Why did you decide to NOT do it yourself?
Sounds high to me for the car I see, but you can pay more. A friend is having a 57 done nearby me that is an extremely high $$$ place. He expects to spend about $20K, but he's getting a new front clip, and some disassembly in addition to the paint job. He bought the front clip, not the shop.

[Chuck W.]

Re: Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$

In my opinion that price is high for an NCRS quality paint job. It is however within the window for a concour quality paint job, which can be described as flawless. This of course depends on how much prep work your painter is planning to do. Is he spray poly-ing the car and blocking it smooth for example? If so you are looking at 3 block sandings at 24-32 man hours each. Is he aligning your body panels and fitting the trim and brightwork to the car? If so, add another 40 man hours or more.

At B-J, most high ticket sales were for over-restored Concour quality restorations and paint. These cars are prepared more for Pebble, Amelia, and Meadowbrook. Less was paid for the NCRS correctly painted vehicles.

One example was the blue Top Flighted, Bloomington Gold, Golden Spinner '54 at B-J on Saturday that sold for $97k + commission. This car was NCRS prepared. Compare this to the flawless '57 that pulled $235k + commission. This car although Top Flighted was Concour prepared.

[Mark S. Lovejoy]

Re: Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$

Jacob,

IMO $20k is absolutely too much $$$. Keep in mind a NCRS quality paint job is "how it left the showroom". GM paint quality in '57 was not great, in fact left a lot of room for improvement.

Painting lacquer is easy, and if you leave a run or a little dust on the surface you can buff it out later. I intend to paint the '65 we are restoring, black lacquer, in my garage and I fully expect professional results.

I encourage you to paint it yourself for two reasons; the satisfaction of doing it and saving big $$$.

BTW: 100 hrs for bodywork is a very small number, we will have closer to 500 or 600 hours expended. But they are my hours, not someone elses at $50 or $60 each.

Best Regards,

Mark
27152

[Verle R.]

Re: Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$

Jacob,

I'm sure the price depends on where you are located. I suggest you check around before you continue, not just in your immediate area. $20K to paint a stripped body shell seems excessive to me. With some research, you may find you can deliver the body to a shop far away, get a correct job done and come out cheaper.

A lot depends on what you want for a finished product. As someone else pointed out, a concurs paint job will cost more than a "correct as delivered" GM paint job.

Good luck,

Verle

[Tracy C.]

Re: Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$

Jacob,

Check around for a local Junior College or Tech School that offers an auto body program. If you can find one within easy driving distance, contact them and ask about enrolling. Tell them you have a car to paint and you want to learn to do it yourself.

If you luck out, you will have all the tools that a full service body and paint shop has at your finger tips...along with an instructor to coach you through the challenges.

A correct NCRS paint job is easiest to get using Lacquer. Although sometimes hard to find, it's by far the easiest and most forgiving paint to shoot.

Pull this off and you can save AT LEAST 18K and spend it on other things for the car.

good luck,
tc

[Tim E.]

Re: Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$

Like others that have responded I suggest at least trying it yourself. You can always stop and take it to the pros. Much of the time is spent in the preparation and primer stages. Clearly, you've already done much of the preparation. I suggest trying your hand at primering. The car appears ready and you've invested in the equipment so there's little to lose by laying on some primer and seeing what results you get.

If you like the results and enjoy the process (like I do), you can proceed to the color stages. The color coats can be the scariest because any flaw in your preparation will show through. Another option is to get your car "in primer" and ask the pro to spray the color coats (reducing the work he is asked to do to save money).

Check the archives of this Board and elsewhere on the Internet for articles on auto (particularly Corvette) painting. Read everything you can find! Assuming you can find lacquer near your home, that is a very forgiving paint for us amateurs. If a mistake occurs due to the painter, mother nature, or a flying insect closely inspecting your work, it's easy to stop, wait a couple hours, correct, and move on.

Read the product data sheets of the paint you select to ensure it's compatible with the products you use both under and on top of your current stage. I also recommend sticking with one manufacturer throughout the process.

Don't touch the surface at any time (oils on your fingers), sand with a block (smoother results), clean thoroughly with wax and grease remover before spraying, and wipe dust with a tack cloth.

Tim

[Ken Edmunds]

Re: Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$

I am in the restoration business. I won't comment on the price but consider this. The amount of time it takes to bodywork, refinish, wet sand and buff a Corvette is enormous. So much of the work has to be done by hand to take care not to wipe out the factory waves, anomalies, peaks, lines, raised hump by the trunk lock.....Also, when the body work is being done each piece such as headlight bucket and bezel, rear exhaust extensions, door posts have to be installed and adjusted for the bodywork to conform to their irregularities. Those parts then need to be removed to finish the process-a lot of time and energy but if you do not do it the final product will reflect it. Wet sanding and polishing a car takes days to do so you do not burn through the paint and to get the right gloss. Having said this, I encourage hobbyists to try their own paint jobs. You can always strip it and redo the body work and when you are done it is a great sense of accomplishment.

[Ronnie Rains]

Re: Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$

I also have a restoration shop and have seen some high dollar paint jobs come thru. You need to remember that painting is the cheapest thing about a paint job. If you do all the allignment and trial fitting as well as "crack proofing" the paint job might be $20,000.00 but as the guys say that is way over a NCRS quality paint job. I did a 54 for a friend, the car was a little beat up and the decision was made to straighten the car and put a concourse paint job and see what the NCRS judges did. We got zero points for paint and body!! We did however out sell a BG, NCRS TF and PV car by $20,000.00 two years ago at BJ. So be careful spending too much money for a lower quality paint job on a car that is not documented or special in some way.
RDR

[Jacob A.]

Re: Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$

Thanks everyone!!!!

I don't really want to paint the car anymore myself.

I am happy to pay someone to do this for me. I am just taking a bit to chew on all this and digest it. I really appreciate all your comments. I think my painter has good intentions, and a very admireable reputation. I saw a car he did 18 years ago... it is black and still looks amazing. I plan on doing some more of the prep work, and maybe this will help out, and I can learn from it.

Best,
Jacob

here is a pictue of the damaged side where the front right wheel must have come off at high speed!

don't know how to do 2 pics in one post, so I will respond to this with the other damaged area.

[Jacob A.]

Re: Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$

Here is where is must have been hit in the right rear. There was no frame damage... so I can't imagine it was hit that hard. Other than the usual stress cracks for a 50 year old car, that is the only major damage to the car.

[Charles C.]

Re: Painting Questions for a Top Flight ?$?$?$?$?$

I have used lacquer and it is forgiving. If you make a mistake, you can re-shoot the area where you have a problem. It's not as deep as a base coat/clear coat and I am sometimes tempted to go that route but would have to hire that out. Lacquer is natrually more original. With lacquer, you can repair the small chips your car sustains in assembly yourself. I would not be able to repair base coat/clear coat. You can buy lacquer over the internet and have it shipped to you in 3 days time from ppgcarpaint.com, at $245 per gallon or $73 per quart. They have all Corvette colors. The colors I have purchased seem replicate the original color well but this may not be the case for all colors so you would want to check this before shooting.