1963 Still Smoking - Resolved Finally (I Hope!) - NCRS Discussion Boards

1963 Still Smoking - Resolved Finally (I Hope!)

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  • Joel T.
    Expired
    • April 30, 2005
    • 765

    1963 Still Smoking - Resolved Finally (I Hope!)

    Hi All;

    For all of you who have followed my posts on this topic over the last 13 months, I think that we are finally at the solution...

    The 327/340 for my SWC was put together in January of 2006 after complete machining of the block, crank, and heads. This was done by a very reputable shop here in NJ. From the get go the thing produced oil smoke at idle, pretty much out of one side of the engine. Many posts to this board which resulted in some very good suggestions and advice. Needless to say we went through all the typical drills, check the heads, the intake seating, etc.. I even pulled the motor a second time, sent it back to the shop for a second tear-down and rebuild only to have it smoke again after only about 50 miles!

    Right after Christmas I brought this smoker back to the shop again for another look. By this time it was burning a quart every 200 miles as close as I could figure. Their call was to pull the motor again (3rd time mind you!), so I dropped it off in January.

    Yesterday, (actually Tuesday) they put the motor on the dyno to see what is happening... As I suspected, they find problems with valve seals. They take the worst two cylinders and replace the seals and run it again. Funny, but those two cylinders clean up! So they take the motor down and replace all the seals with what they described as a "higher quality" seal and guess what, no more smoke!

    Here's the explanation for what it is worth, maybe I can save someone else a pile of time and money.

    What I am told is that currently there is considerable flux in the parts industry; problems with quality and things like adhearence to specs, etc.. They contacted the manufacturer of the new cam (Competition Cams) who basically tells them that their new design solid lifters pump more oil into the tops of the heads than did the original design; not a lot, perhaps 5-10% more than the original design. They also tell the shop that in "rare" situations, this extra oil flow will create a problem with "standard" (I guess) valve seals. I guess I was one of these "rare" situations.

    I'm heading out in a few minutes to pick the motor up again to hopefully get the car back together this coming weekend. Please keep your fingers crossed!

    Joel

    PS, I went back through my posts on this topic since last January and there were at least one or two of you who nailed the problem (in hindsight)!! Thanks again to all for all members for your help...
  • Joe M.
    Very Frequent User
    • February 1, 2005
    • 589

    #2
    Re: 1963 Still Smoking - Resolved Finally (I Hope!

    Joe,
    What shop?
    I think we live in the same area. I'm in neshanic.

    What design differences were there between CC's old and new design solid lifters?

    What valve seals are on your car now vs when the engine was smoking ?

    What would you do differently if you were to put together another stock engine with a 097 cam?

    Thanks,
    Joe

    Comment

    • Duke W.
      Beyond Control Poster
      • January 1, 1993
      • 15610

      #3
      Re: 1963 Still Smoking - Resolved Finally (I Hope!

      I'm not ready to buy the idea that additional oil to the valves increases oil consumption to the level you reported. The original "edge orifice" mechanical lifters used on SBs are virtually impossible to find and have been replaced by the "piddle valve" type lifter that were OE on BBs, which increase SB overhead oiling by 15 percent or so.

      The OE O-ring valve seal prevents oil from leaking down the valve stem from the top and the "shield" limits splash to the top of the valve guide. This system works fairly well, but I recommend viton O-rings since they will last at least double the time of nitrile before they harden, crack, and allow oil to leak past. However SHP engines pass more oil due to the looser piston clearance and a quart every 1500-2000 is quite accetable on a new engine.

      It would help if you would provide more info.

      Replacement piston and clearance?

      Were the valve guides rebuilt on the original rebuild? What technology and material? Different valve guide technology/materials require different oil flow rates, so my recommendation is to always use the seal type specified by the valve guide technology manufacturer.

      So we need all the details on the guides and seals. Description, manufacturer, and part number.

      Your discussion is too vague to be of much use to others in the future, but since high oil consumption is not that uncommon on new rebuilds, the only way to analyze the culprit is to divulge all the details (what I asked above) including what component was changed to finally solve the problem and the details of that component.

      Duke

      Comment

      • Verle R.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • March 1, 1989
        • 1163

        #4
        Re: 1963 Still Smoking - Resolved Finally (I Hope!

        I know of a new engine rebuild with full rebuild of the heads, new guides, new valves and high oil consumption.

        The new iron guides failed. They all were replaced.

        New "high quality" guide seals would have been a temporary fix.

        Make sure they checked the guides again.

        I am seeing so many failures of new (including Delco) parts that I have no confidence that any part is good.

        Verle

        Comment

        • Joe L.
          Beyond Control Poster
          • February 1, 1988
          • 43193

          #5
          Re: 1963 Still Smoking - Resolved Finally (I Hope!

          Joel-----

          I hate to say this but I REALLY doubt that the valve seal replacement is going to result in any long term solution to the problem you have been experiencing with oil consumption. I hope that I'm wrong, but I don't think that I will be.
          In Appreciation of John Hinckley

          Comment

          • Joel T.
            Expired
            • April 30, 2005
            • 765

            #6
            Re: 1963 Still Smoking - Resolved Finally (I Hope!

            Guys,

            Some of you have asked some very good technical questions which unfortunately, I do not have the answers to. I will do some digging at the machine shop later today to see what I can find out. The folks who did the work in NJ were Tony Feil's in Raritan. These folks build lots of modern day racing motors but doing restoration stuff is not their daily thing. Talking to one of the techs, he stated that this was the first time he had ever run into anything like this.

            In terms of a long term fix, I tend to agree with Joe Lucia. I've inspected all the exhaust ports after two days on the dyno and they are clean, but I do not know enough to conclude that the fix will be permanent. I've got a second set of dated heads which I will probably bring down to County Corvette for a rebuild.

            The point of the post was to underscore the fact that (as someone did say way back last May) that the machine shops are not always correct in their assessments and will in fact try and push this sort of thing off to who knows what. Believe me, I have been down that path, in spades. For now, I will put the '63 back together this weekend, fire her up and see what happens...

            Comment

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