Why can't I time my car?

[Patrick H.]

OK, actually it's my Dad's car, a 1972 base motor automatic.

The entire ignition system has been replaced or rebuilt. This includes new plugs, wires and cap, points, coil, and a recurved original distributor. The last thing I did was reinstall the distributor after receiving it back from my vendor. I verified TDC by the timing tape I have on the harmonic balancer as well as the position of the pushrods as I rotated the engine. I had also set it at TDC before I removed the distributor, so I didn't think I was far of when I reinstalled it. I'd had it recurved because the timing wasn't stable at low rpm's.

The funny thing is, it now barely runs, and then only for 5-10 seconds with lots of help tweaking the throttle. When I attach a timing light, I can't even get it to flash. Not at all. I can get my electric tach/dwell meter to work on the same connections, but no timing light flash (and yes, I've verified the connections). I even purchased a new timing light, but I get the same non-result.

Wouldn't the light still flash even if my timing is way off? That's the piece that makes the least amount of sense. Or is there a loose or bad connection I'm missing out on? The car ran fine, other than timing, before I had the distributor re-done. I've had it running long enough to verify the dwell is OK, but that's it.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Patrick

[Terry M.]

Re: Why can't I time my car? *TL*

Patrick,

This reminds me very much of the symptoms of a distributor installed with the #1 piston on TDC of the exhaust stroke (crank 360 degrees off from compression TDC). I can't tie the lack of timing light output to that, but 360 out it will run, but barely. Don't ask me how I know....

Try rechecking TDC. I like to hold my finger over the spark plug hole, or use one of those whistles that screw into the hole.

Terry

http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-aisi-sae.htm

[Bob Simard]

Re: Why can't I time my car?

Coil wired backwards?

[Patrick H.]

Re: Why can't I time my car?

Terry,

I thought of that. I took off the valve cover again today, and the timing "seems" to be right on with the valve movements. I could try it 180 degrees off, but I'm always so afraid of that happening that I make sure an engine is at TDC every time I take out a distributor.

Any idea if a broken capacitor on the side of the coil, or broken condenser, would do this?

It seems to me that if it's firing at all, the timing light should work. I tried various leads off the distributor without success.

Patrick

[Dave Christensen]

Re: Why can't I time my car?

Are you using an inductive timing light? I could not get mine to flash when I connected the inductive clamp on the distributor end of the plug wire. When I connect it to the plug end it works fine. I know, it is much easier to get to the distributor end. That worked on my 56.

If it only runs for 10 seconds or so I think that you must have other problems.

Dave Christensen

[george romano]

Re: Why can't I time my car?

If the timing light will not work on any plug wire, then the light is bad.

As for the poor idle, timing sounds retarded. Could have put the dist. in one or two teeth off. Try to advance it as far as possible. Remove the tach cable if needed.

George

[Patrick H.]

Re: Why can't I time my car?

George,

I bought a new light, and it still doesn't work. I tried both lights on my truck, and they work.

The distributor cable is disconnected.

Patrick

[John H.]

Re: Why can't I time my car?

Patrick -

There's gotta be a reason for no (or very low) spark energy. Check voltage at coil (+) terminal, check primary and secondary coil resistance (specs in Shop Manual), swap in a known good coil and try it. New points and condenser? Bad condenser will ground the points. Little black wire from the breaker plate to the inside of the distributor body OK? Check for continuity - if it's bad, points get no ground, no spark. Check button in center of cap and contact leaf on the rotor. If your light won't trigger, the problem is between the coil and the distributor cap somewhere. I'm assuming the distributor drive gear has the dimple facing the rotor tip, the distributor is oriented correctly, and the wires are correctly indexed in the cap towers.

[G B.]

Weak spark with good coil?

I would change the condenser in the distributor.

If that didn't help, I would then jump around the ballast resister.

If neither of those worked, I would replace the rotor.

Well, actually I would just start switching out electrical components with parts that are known to be good. Yes, some parts are bad (or mis-matched) right out of the box. I've even had new points come apart at the contacts.

[Terry M.]

Re: Why can't I time my car? *TL*

Patrick,
The capacitor on the side of the coil is for radio noise suppression and, unless it is shorted to ground, will not effect vehicle operation.
Terry

http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-aisi-sae.htm

[Bill Braun 33186]

Re: Why can't I time my car?

Patrick,

I had this problem a while ago. Most cars just don't want to run at TDC. Advance it about ten degrees. When I did that, it fired right up.

Bill

[Michael Jones]

Re: Why can't I time my car?

Three things:

I. I agree wth Christenson on the placement of the inductive hookup, it should be placed close t the spark plug.

2. There is polarity of the inductive pickup of the timing light. There is an arrow on the pickup.

3. Do you have a timing light with a dial on it that allows it to be adjusted by advancing the timing light strobe up to 35 degrees? If so, make sure it is set to zero.Or turn it to allow you to find the flashing strobe that would normally be elsewhere on the balancer.

These are simple things but they could contribute to your problem.

HTH,

Michael

[Patrick H.]

Re: Why can't I time my car?

Michael,

I checked them all. No help.

Patrick

[Patrick H.]

Re: Why can't I time my car?

BTDF,

I varied the timing by at least 30 degrees in my quest to figure it out. No help. Can't see where the timing is at, either, when I can't get a signal.

MDE

[Mike McKown]

Re: Why can't I time my car?

I've followed this thread since it started and just went back and re-read everything to understood where you've been. You need four things to make your engine run: fire, fuel and compression in the right sequence of course. Rule out the compression 'cause it isn't likely you lost it while you were torn down. Fuel? I can't tell from your description about this as you say fanning the gas keeps it running, barely. Are you sure you have sufficient fuel delivery to the carb? Sounds like you know how to put a distrubutor in. On to the spark. What I read here is that people are assuming you have weak/no spark because your light won't flash. Forget the light for a minute. Get a test light and probe the plus (switch) side of the coil and roll the engine maybe 12-15 revolutions. If the light STAYS steady and bright, you are probably good on the voltage supply side. IT should be just as bright as if you probe the plus side of the battery, almost. Now go to the distributor side of the coil terminal and probe the minus side. Crank the engine as before. You should get a flash on your test light every time your points break. Not continuous. A flash. If you don't, your trouble is inside the distributor. Points burnt, glazed, dirty. Or the condenser grounded as suggested earlier. And maybe other possibilities. If your test light flashes when you crank the engine, then pull the coil wire out of the coil and gap it to ground and crank the engine. You should get a good hot spark with a definite snap to it. Go on downstream to your plugs. Pull a plug wire and stick a known good plug on the terminal and crank the engine. Should be a good hot spark that repeats EVERY (this is important) TIME this cylinder fires. If this is okay, go back upstream and check for the spark shorted to ground between the rotor and distributor shaft. If you see no carbon tracking or arcing signs, pull the plugs and take a look. If you have a really ratty set in there, they will do just like you are describing.

'Nother thing I might try just for laughs. Snap the timing light around the COIL wire into the cap and see if it will flash. And if you want to check the contact points, turn your key on and work a screwdriver across the point arm and pry against the base, making the screwdrive act like the contact points. You should get your coil to snap a good spark.

Another test if you want to see if you have the distributor in the right notch. start turning the distributor as far as it will go counter-clockwise as you crank the engine to start. At some point, the engine should start kicking back on the starter. If it does and you back the distributor back off and the kicking back stops you're probably okay on the timing (close). Again, this is assuming the engine is getting fuel.

A maicious thought. When I was in college many moons ago I put a 270 and dual four set-up on my buddies '59 Impala in the parking lot. I knew I knew what I was doing but for the like of me, I couldn't get the thing to run. Took me a week to figure it out because I took things for granted that I didn't disturb. Well, seems someone went out there when we weren't looking and swapped all the plugs wires around. All I did was lay the cap aside when I started working on it and then rolled it back on the distributor when I put it back in. Didn't think to check the cap as I hadn't changed the wires. Lesson learned!

Little windy maybe, but seems like you have been doing more reading than riding anyway.

Best I can do and this has worked well for me for a long time.

Regards,
Mike