Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

[John M.]

Our friends with Fox-body Mustangs have recently seen the availability of 225/60VR15 Goodyear Gatorbacks.

I contacted both Kelsey Tire and Lucas Tireonly one who would like correct tires I can actually drive on. Goodyear exited having any tire in the correct size in the last decade, leading, of course, to a brutal point deduction when being judged.

[Joe L.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

Our friends with Fox-body Mustangs have recently seen the availability of 225/60VR15 Goodyear Gatorbacks.

I contacted both Kelsey Tire and Lucas Tire about the chances of getting 255/60VR16 Gatorbacks for our cars. The (quick) responses were polite but firm—they are not convinced that there is a significant market for these tires.

Does anyone have any insight into how one get could get someone to start manufacturing or reproducing these tires? I can't be the only one who would like correct tires I can actually drive on. Goodyear exited having any tire in the correct size in the last decade, leading, of course, to a brutal point deduction when being judged.

John------


If John Kelsey is unwilling to do it, I don't expect that anyone else will. The problem here is that a source like John Kelsey has to purchase a minimum number of tires when they place their order with the manufacturer and pay on delivery. The minimum order is usually a very large number. Then, they have to inventory the lot until they are sold. So, they have to be convinced that there is a sufficient market to justify their investment.

I expect that the new tire industry recommendation that tires not be used beyond 7 years from the date of manufacture adds another interesting complexity to the whole process. In fact, I think that could potentially cause problems for future availability of reproduction tires that are currently available.

[John M.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

John------

If John Kelsey is unwilling to do it, I don't expect that anyone else will. The problem here is that a source like John Kelsey has to purchase a minimum number of tires when they place their order with the manufacturer and pay on delivery. The minimum order is usually a very large number. Then, they have to inventory the lot until they are sold. So, they have to be convinced that there is a sufficient market to justify their investment.

I expect that the new tire industry recommendation that tires not be used beyond 7 years from the date of manufacture adds another interesting complexity to the whole process. In fact, I think that could potentially cause problems for future availability of reproduction tires that are currently available.

Joe,

Thank you, as always, for your response. I feel like I am truly back in this part of the hobby now that I've received a note from you.

I'm afraid you may be correct. This is really rough for folks who have restored cars instead of preserved

[Walter G.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

I'm the original owner of my 26,000 mile '84 and I share the concern about replacement tires. Back in '88 I purchased one of the last remaining sets of the "'84 only" recessed lettering Gatorbacks from Goodyear. These are mounted on a second set of '84 wheels and have few miles. Based on age, they are not something I am comfortable with to drive on the street. My original wheels are now mounted on BFG's which like John said are about the only game in town for our size. The BFG's are now 7 years old and facing extinction from street use as well. I also would hope for some repros for us early C4 owners, but even if it happens it would probably be for the '85's and newer (raised lettering) so not an exact match for the '84's. I still have my original tires as well which are not mounted at all today. The 'donut' spare tire is another challenge if needed-no repros available there either. I was forced to use my original one on a road trip to the Corvette museum and it quickly went bad. I was able to find two unused ones searching the 'net but that was several years ago now and they're probably even harder to find today.

[Joe L.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

Joe,

Thank you, as always, for your response. I feel like I am truly back in this part of the hobby now that I've received a note from you.

I'm afraid you may be correct. This is really rough for folks who have restored cars instead of preserved cars. A some point, my HP Ultras are going to keel over and then I'll end up showing for judging with (likely) BF Goodrich tires—the only street tire currently being made in that size.

John------

I'm afraid it gets worse. In the tire industry, when the demand for a particular tire model and size drops below a certain point, the tire is discontinued. Tire manufacturers just don't find it profitable to keep tires in production when demand drops below a certain point. I believe the "7 year rule" I described previously is only going to make this situation worse because, now, they only have a very limited time to sell the tires manufactured in a production run. What you usually find is the different manufacturers for a particular size "drop out" one-by-one. Sales then go to the other manufacturers offering the size until only "one man is left standing".

As you say, the B. F. Goodrich tire is the only currently available tire in the 255-50-16 size. However, it's currently on national back order. In my experience, when this occurs for a particular tire and size, it means the manufacturer is either considering whether to continue manufacture of the size or has already made that decision to discontinue it but not announced it. Every tire that I have ever ordered that was on national back order never materialized. But, of course, that certainly does not mean that will always occur.

It would be interesting to know what other cars used this particular tire size. If the list is short, that's a very bad sign for the continued availability of the tire.

Regardless, the day could very well come when there is no tire available in the size you need. If that occurs about all you can do is find another 16" size which is close, will fit, and which is available.

[John M.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

I'm the original owner of my 26,000 mile '84 and I share the concern about replacement tires. Back in '88 I purchased one of the last remaining sets of the "'84 only" recessed lettering Gatorbacks from Goodyear. These are mounted on a second set of '84 wheels and have few miles. Based on age, they are not something I am comfortable with to drive on the street. My original wheels are now mounted on BFG's which like John said are about the only game in town for our size. The BFG's are now 7 years old and facing extinction from street use as well. I also would hope for some repros for us early C4 owners, but even if it happens it would probably be for the '85's and newer (raised lettering) so not an exact match for the '84's. I still have my original tires as well which are not mounted at all today. The 'donut' spare tire is another challenge if needed-no repros available there either. I was forced to use my original one on a road trip to the Corvette museum and it quickly went bad. I was able to find two unused ones searching the 'net but that was several years ago now and they're probably even harder to find today.

[Joe L.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

Walter,

Thanks for your response—it's nice to know that someone else thinks this is an issue.

I must admit that I would happily buy new 84-specific Gatorbacks—it would be so much closer than the current tires and I'd be able to put the tire problem off another seven years.

John------


One other thing: if these 1984-only Gatorbacks ever do come into reproduction you can expect the cost to be quite high-----I'd guesstimate in the range of $400-500 per tire, maybe even more.

[John M.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

John------

I'm afraid it gets worse. In the tire industry, when the demand for a particular tire model and size drops below a certain point, the tire is discontinued. Tire manufacturers just don't find it profitable to keep tires in production when demand drops below a certain point. I believe the "7 year rule" I described previously is only going to make this situation worse because, now, they only have a very limited time to sell the tires manufactured in a production run. What you usually find is the different manufacturers for a particular size "drop out" one-by-one. Sales then go to the other manufacturers offering the size until only "one man is left standing".

As you say, the B. F. Goodrich tire is the only currently available tire in the 255-50-16 size. However, it's currently on national back order. In my experience, when this occurs for a particular tire and size, it means the manufacturer is either considering whether to continue manufacture of the size or has already made that decision to discontinue it but not announced it. Every tire that I have ever ordered that was on national back order never materialized. But, of course, that certainly does not mean that will always occur.

It would be interesting to know what other cars used this particular tire size. If the list is short, that's a very bad sign for the continued availability of the tire.

Regardless, the day could very well come when there is no tire available in the size you need. If that occurs about all you can do is find another 16" size which is close, will fit, and which is available.

Joe,

Everything you say sounds reasonable and realistic—but it certainly doesn't make me happy. Some research, for folk's amusement:

1) According to the Wheel-Size.com site, 255/50R16 tires were (of course) Corvette-only.

2) TireSize.com has a very interesting calculator that finds tire sizes that are close to the same diameter. Evidently 235/65R16 is an exact diameter match—of course, it's thinner in width. 235/65R16s were used for a bunch of SUVs and also the Cadillac DeVille.

[John M.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

John------

One other thing: if these 1984-only Gatorbacks ever do come into reproduction you can expect the cost to be quite high-----I'd guesstimate in the range of $400-500 per tire, maybe even more.

Joe,

I saw the cost for the Mustang Gatorbacks—about $310 to $315. I'd definitely expect the Corvette Gatorbacks to be more, but it still might be the best points per dollar investment I could make for 1985.

[Joe L.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

Joe,

Everything you say sounds reasonable and realistic—but it certainly doesn't make me happy. Some research, for folk's amusement:

1) According to the Wheel-Size.com site, 255/50R16 tires were (of course) Corvette-only.

2) TireSize.com has a very interesting calculator that finds tire sizes that are close to the same diameter. Evidently 235/65R16 is an exact diameter match—of course, it's thinner in width. 235/65R16s were used for a bunch of SUVs and also the Cadillac DeVille.

John------


Well, fortunately, while this size was apparently Corvette-only (I kind of suspected that), at least it was used for a number of years (except, of course, for sidewall configuration). Thus, there were about 160,000 Corvettes manufactured in the 1984-88 period that originally used this size. That may be enough to keep one tire manufacturer interested. Of course, how many of these that are surviving and regularly driven almost 30 years after the last one was manufactured enters the equation, too.

[Walter G.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

The sheer number of Corvettes built using this 255/50R16 tire size was my holdout hope for the availability of some repros. The 160,000 produced are more than other generations that have repros currently available. Unfortunately, many early C4 owners dislike the stock wheel designs and have changed to aftermarket styles and upgraded to 17" or larger wheels in the process. It will depend if/when the early (or any!) C4's become candidates for correct restorations and there is eventually a demand for correct tires. The addition of the NCRS Concours class will not likely help promote interest in restorations of the C4's. Preservation, yes, but not accurate restorations as found on earlier cars.

[John M.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

Jumping back into this thread to note that BF Goodrich has evidently given in and made some more in this size—I was able to successfully order an extra from TireRack today.

[Edward J.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

John keep an eye on craigslist is there are sometimes older c4 tires and wheels listed. I am not sure just how many years these tires were available??

[John D.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

The '83-'84 Goodyear tires were a one off design. The lettering was recessed into the tire. The fellow in charge of this project was Tony Cardina.
Dave Cardina is an old time member of NCRS. I believe Tony was his cousin.
I used to have a May 83 car but lost it in the divorce. I bought a set of 4 of the special tiresw for my car. Two are wore out and two are decent. At least for having the car judged. I paid a lot of bucks for them in the old days. Have no use for them now. John

[Mike M.]

Re: Any Chance Of Reproduction Gatorbacks For Early C4s?

i lent john kelsey one of the original tires on the 84 vet i ordered in 83. the car has 7 miles showing today. i got the tire back from me kelsey and he sent me, free of charge , four 6.70 x 15's for one of our c-1's i was restoring. that was about 5 years ago. mike