CE block - VIN on pad or not?

[Ara G.]

I am interested to know if a car, 67 vette, got a CE block under warranty, will it have the partial VIN stamped on the engine pad? IF the original car had a 657 350hp block, would the CE block also be a 657? Am contemplating buying a car with a CE block and haven't even seen it, but have no idea if the VIN would be on the pad. ALso, any thoughts on how much it negatively affects the value of the car or for judging purposes? Any help appreciated.

[Robert C.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

The CE block, or Chev. replacement Block,is not the ORIGINAL block that came with the car. Depending on condition of the rest of the car, the value would be approx 10% to 30% less that a OM motor car. It also will nor gain in value like an OM motor car.

[Michael W.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

CE engines were also sold as over the counter replacements, not just as warranty replacements.

For judging purposes CE engines are given no special credit as they could have been installed at any time- by anyone.

They are generally priced the same as any NOM car.

[Ara G.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Thanks guys. Appreciate the insight. It's also painted the wrong color. Doesn't sound like something I am interested in. Thanks again

[Cecil L.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Also, after the 327 went out of regular production in 69, the replacement or CE 327 block was recast as 3959512. The 283 was recast as 3959532.

[Jim T.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

I have a CE block Chevrolet Engine in my 70. It was installed due to engine failure after a few minutes of operation on my brand new 70 Corvette. My CE block cast date is dated within the time frame for the build date of my 70 and has the same engine block casting number as the original. The pad on the front is the only place I would lose some points for not having the VIN and having the CE engine data CEOA47538 instead of V0702CTG.

[Tom L.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Two comments, I read somewhere, don't remember where, that on warranty replacements the dealer would sometimes re-stamp the origional numbers onto the pad along with the CE numbers. The engine code along with it's build date are crudely stamped into the pad on my car. I remember finding this info because after purchasing my car I was trying to figure out why the additional numbers were there.

Also, (and I'm sure this isn't going anywhere) when a part is found defective from the factory and they repair it under warranty, for example the starter, with the factory authorized correct part, isn't that what the factory produced? And origional based on what the factory promised to the customer upon purchase? Obviously documentation of the change would be required.

[Harmon C.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Jim's example of his 70 CE block would lose the least amount of points during judging for a CE block. In most cases the date on the block is after the build date of the car.
The standard NCRS judges the engine by gives no more or less points to a CE block than any NOM engine. Engines are judged by the instructions in the Judging reference manual which can be bought at the NCRS store. Everyone interested in buying or having a Corvette judged should understand the rules and spend the few bucks for the book instead of way too much for the wrong car.

[Mike E.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Two comments, I read somewhere, don't remember where, that on warranty replacements the dealer would sometimes re-stamp the origional numbers onto the pad along with the CE numbers. The engine code along with it's build date are crudely stamped into the pad on my car. I remember finding this info because after purchasing my car I was trying to figure out why the additional numbers were there.

Also, (and I'm sure this isn't going anywhere) when a part is found defective from the factory and they repair it under warranty, for example the starter, with the factory authorized correct part, isn't that what the factory produced? And origional based on what the factory promised to the customer upon purchase? Obviously documentation of the change would be required.

Lynn--
NCRS judging standards are established to judge the car as it was when it left the plant. Our standard is not "original based on what the factory promised the customer upon purchase." That standard has been in place since the inception of the organization in 1974. There have been many who for one reason or another want to add shades of gray to that over the years--that has always been deemed too slippery a slope to start down.
Regards,
Mike

[Tom L.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

I'm not trying to ad a grey area, and I am certainly not bitter about my CE. It's just sad that due to manufacturing mistakes (or whatever you would like to call them) many of our cars left the factory never having a chance to be a numbers matching car. Unless of course you're into counterfitting.

[Terry M.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

The CE engines were not installed at the factory -- even in the factory repair line. The CE engines were installed at the dealership.

If an engine failed in the factory they would have gone to the other end of the plant and got one of the engines waiting to be installed and run it down to the repair area and put it in the car. I am not too sure, although I have some suspicions, about how they would have stamped the VIN, but they would have put it on the pad, and we might never know the difference.

[John H.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

If an engine failed in the factory they would have gone to the other end of the plant and got one of the engines waiting to be installed and run it down to the repair area and put it in the car. I am not too sure, although I have some suspicions, about how they would have stamped the VIN, but they would have put it on the pad, and we might never know the difference.

Terry -

When an engine failed (or made strange noises, etc.) at roll-test, the car went to a Heavy Repair stall, and the Repair Supervisor sent a copy of that car's Broadcast Copy back to the Engine Dress Line for a replacement. Another engine was run down the Dress Line using that Broadcast Copy (including stamping the correct VIN derivative); the engine was pulled off the conveyor at the end of the Dress Line, placed on a pallet, and a Hi-Lo took it down to Heavy Repair.

In the meantime, the failed engine was pulled from the car and sent back to the Dress Line, where all the bolt-on parts the plant added were stripped off and returned to the line, and the "naked" engine was placed in an empty shipping rack and returned to the supplying engine plant for credit. Assembly plants didn't do any internal engine repairs.

After the engine replacement was complete, the car was re-roll-tested and re-inspected, a new P-O-P was created and affixed with the new engine's machine code, and the car proceeded through Final Process and was shipped. This entire process seldom took more than two shifts.

[Terry M.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Thanks for the detail John. Bottom line is that we would be unlikely to detect the replacement engine in judging. And it would NOT be a CE engine.

[John H.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Thanks for the detail John. Bottom line is that we would be unlikely to detect the replacement engine in judging. And it would NOT be a CE engine.

Correct!

[Steven B.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Terry -

When an engine failed (or made strange noises, etc.) at roll-test, the car went to a Heavy Repair stall, and the Repair Supervisor sent a copy of that car's Broadcast Copy back to the Engine Dress Line for a replacement. Another engine was run down the Dress Line using that Broadcast Copy (including stamping the correct VIN derivative); the engine was pulled off the conveyor at the end of the Dress Line, placed on a pallet, and a Hi-Lo took it down to Heavy Repair.

In the meantime, the failed engine was pulled from the car and sent back to the Dress Line, where all the bolt-on parts the plant added were stripped off and returned to the line, and the "naked" engine was placed in an empty shipping rack and returned to the supplying engine plant for credit. Assembly plants didn't do any internal engine repairs.

After the engine replacement was complete, the car was re-roll-tested and re-inspected, a new P-O-P was created and affixed with the new engine's machine code, and the car proceeded through Final Process and was shipped. This entire process seldom took more than two shifts.

John, am I correct in assuming that a naked engine is a long block or could it be a short block? Anything else it might be?

Thanks for contributing your knowledge. It is really appreciated.

Steve