Horn Button Judging

[Gordon H.]

[Harmon C.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

Someone needs to find the facts like you have. now write them down and submit them to the team leader of that judging manual. Then wait till a new manual comes out. If a new manual is done every ten years you may see a change if the team leader has a chance to check out your facts and agrees with your findings. At a regional level the judges and the team leader may already have the facts and be judging the horn button the way you think it should be or you may need to gather more information to prove your point. I can tell you if it's in print wrong the wheels turn real slow to see an in print change as it takes 1-10 years.

[Terry M.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

I would also suggest you be sure that you understand the meaning of the words in the TIM&JG. My memory is that the manual makes no reference to the flag pole, but talks about the upper square. I believe this is one of the many statements that we thought were clear when we wrote the manual, but turned out to be open to misinterpretation once others began to read the manual.

[Gordon H.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

The TIM & JG says On the crossed flag emblem, the top square of the checkerd flag (the square nearest the flag pole) was black on 1970 and 1972. white on 1971. Mine is still black on a 1971, early model .

[Terry M.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

If the part you have in parenthesis is in the manual, it has been clarified and updated since we first wrote it. That is a good thing.

[Gordon H.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

It is in the manual ! I have recieved no updates so I have to go on what I have in my TIM & JG

[Terry M.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

And you should go with the manual. Collect some more data points and sent them to Stan so the appropriate changes can be made on the next revision o the manual.

[Bob D.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

Gordon

In an effort to help you collect data: 1971 Corvette last four of the VIN 2643, Built 27 Nov 1970, black square on the upper left of the checkered flag on the horn button. I am the second owner and bought the car when it was 8 months old.

[Gordon H.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

Thank you Bob . If some more people would reply to this question we would have data to change the guide for others n the future .

[Bob D.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

Gordon

No problem. I have one of those early '71s with several of '70 parts such as 5-port washer pump, '70 tail light lenses. On several previous judgings the judges have used their judgement and not deducted for the flag.

Bob

[Gordon H.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

Shouldn't judges give some lattitude for things like this where common sense should prevail ?Guess there will always be questions.The people on the assembly line wern't as careful as our judges

[Michael W.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

Shouldn't judges give some lattitude for things like this where common sense should prevail ?Guess there will always be questions.The people on the assembly line wern't as careful as our judges

I think this is a matter of unrealistic expectations. No judge is an absolute expert on every detail of every year of car. That's why we have manuals to guide us when our memory or personal knowledge is insufficient. If a manual gives specific information that contradicts what is being observed on a given car, and the judge has no overriding knowledge, it is logical that he or she would take a deduction.

You, as the owner, have the opportunity to review the deducts with the judges and discuss any points that are not agreed upon.

Keep in mind also that the manuals are nowhere near complete and error free. In essence they have been reverse engineered using observations from the field rather than being distilled from factory paperwork. Having said that, I doubt that there was ever any paperwork to show the pattern or progression of horn button emblem change over on early '71s. The assembly line workers wern't being careless, they were simply using the parts provided to them to build the cars.

As others have suggested, collect as much data as possible and submit it to the Team Leader (Stan) for future revisions of the manuals.

[Reba W.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

Experienced judges know that when an item changed from one year to next, early or late cars have anomalies. My early 1972 (3300) has a '71 horn button and 4-way flasher button. I have seen at least one '72 with '71 heel pad. Many cars I have judged have tilt levers from the previous year because fewer tilt columns were sold.

As previously mentioned, GM did not throw out older parts but used them up. We often see cars with a mixture of items for several months of production.

[Bob D.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

Reba

I'll add another early '72 with a '71 heel pad. This was an early September build with a blue interior. Everything in the interior appeared original. Using my judgement, I gave the benefit to the owner.

[Reba W.]

Re: Horn Button Judging

The one I saw, Bob, was low 200 VIN and the interior was red. We always assume that different colors were used up at different rates. I would not expect to see many leftover black items.