1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
My 70 coupe, #9, has A-85 option on build sheet, the shoulder harness tags, 52B 69 C13. The JM details a slot for belt to slide thru seat back. Did late 69's or all early 70's all have this design ? This car does not have slot, I can add this easily but need some input before doing so. Steve
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Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
Steve, your question has potential for some interesting discussion. I waited to see what the experts said, but nobody has taken the bait. I'll give you the little info I think I know, and bump you back to the top.
First, in both 69 or 70, A85 is a shoulder belt option, but FOR CONVERTIBLES ONLY as I understand it. Therefore, a coupe should not have come equipped with A85...it should have been equipped with the shoulder belts as standard equipment. The fact that you apparently have a build sheet that SAYS your coupe has the A85 option raises questions in my mind about the origin of the build sheet. I would research the provenance of the build sheet; I've seen dealers do funny things to sell a car.
As you say, the high back seat backs without headrests, and the seat back slots were new for 70, but your VIN number is VERY low; I would be careful about making slots in the seat back trim until I was SURE the lack of slots wasn't original to the car. The slots may have been an early addition after the first few cars, but I haven't heard of this before.
P. S. I thought I remembered the AIM having details for making the slot in the seat trim escutcheon during assembly. See the 70 AIM, UPC 1, Sheet J6 for the slot details. This sheet was drawn in mid-December, 1969. Typically, changes didn't make it into production until weeks or months after the final approval date. I have no idea how the slots and shoulder belts on coupes or convertibles were handled during early production. -
Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
Thanks Chuck, especially for the bump, the build sheet is original for sure, the A-85 option is not listed on the build sheet, sorry for any confusion. The shoulder belts have no wear marks therefore I belive they never had slots in seat backs, in the early 70's, seat belts were not used very much and shoulder harness even less, they have been usable as they are without the seat back slots. SteveComment
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Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
Steve-----
I can tell you this much: late 1969 did not use the "high back" seats for either coupe or convertible; all 1969's used head rest seats. As far as I know, the "high back" seats were introduced for the 1970 model year effective with "Job 1". As far as the shoulder harness slot goes, I do not know.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
Are saying the shoulder belts are NOT usable because the slots don't exist?
I am thinking the slots kept this new feature as aesthetic and efficient as possible with the high back seats, but aren't necessary for the shoulder belt to be functional...but I really can't visualize the arrangement; it's been too long since I've used one. If the shoulder belts are not functional without the slots, I would be surprised it left the factory that way.
Frankly, I wouldn't cut the slots on an early car just because the JM says ALL 70s are supposed to have them. I believe I would have the car judged "as is" and let the interior judges thrash it out. If they're good judges, they won't automatically assume the JM is always the gospel truth, and give the feature a little thought and analysis for an early "changeover" car. If the lack of slots is original, I would rather take the deduct than make the car conform to what is possibly an narrow inaccuracy in the JM.
Don't get me wrong; the 70-72 JM is one of NCRS' finest. However, during it's development, committee members have had to make generalizations based on observations of the majority of production. The JM has to show material that is correct for most 70-72 Corvettes.Comment
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Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
The TIM&JG standard is TFP -- Typical Factory Production. It is not the burden of the judging manual to describe every anomaly in three years of Corvette production -- not that we could if we tried. It is the judges' responsibility to consider all the factors they can, and the owner's responsibility to provide what information he/she has to assist that process.
Since NCRS doesn't judge the window sticker or build records the fact that a Coupe has A85 will not be an issue. However, to the extend that those build records support the shoulder belt anomaly; they may be useful to have to show the judges.
Steve you have a piece of history there. Don't change anything just because "someone" or "some book" says it should be otherwise. When are you going to bring it around for us to look at?TerryComment
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Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
I think the OP is stating that the shoulder belts are presently being used by guiding them around the side of the seat, then attaching them to the lap belt. This is obviously not the designed configuration of the belts and I have some doubts as to the safety of such useage.
We should never say never, but I find it hard to understand how a federally mandated feature of a car could slip out the door in an 'incorrect' config.
Is it possible that someone swapped seats or incorrectly restored them? I've seen lots of later sharks where the shoulder belts were deliberately extracted from the seat back slots to make the rear storage area more accessible.Comment
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Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
I am saying they are and have been used without seat back slots,(unsafe ??) although they were used very, very little by me and have been that way since 1973 that I know for sure, but who knows what could have been done the first 2 years. I think this will be an item the judges can kick around among other items as well. To answer Terry's question "when will I bring the car around ? " I don't know, probably after finishing a 71' conv.(frame on restoration) and a 72' coupe (frame off), it's rare for me and very interesting comparing production features of 3 consecutive year corvette's, I get lost in work sometimes. SteveComment
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Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
My opinion would be that the Feds mandated the shoulder belts, but not the slot through the seat back configuration. The compliance of what seems to a styling feature would be less rigorous in my opinion
Even today, we have an "around the seat back" type of configuration, except that the belt is retained at the lock pillar by a substantial guide to correctly distribute the load. In those days, they may not have even recognized good function would make that distribution essential, and the "slot" through the seat back was intended simply as a styling gimmick that improved the function and the "look".
I also considered the possibility of a seat exchange (will convertible seats interchange?). That would be the more obvious conclusion, in my opinion, if the VIN was from the middle of production year. The early VIN screams "delayed change" due to supply problems, but it's hard to say.
I knew this would be a good discussion.
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Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
Gee I will have to hang on quite a while to see it Steve. You are giving me motivation to keep going on.
TerryComment
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Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
A seat swap or at least seat back swap would end this discussion, but I will be looking at any other early cars for a comparison. Since coupes were equiped with A-85's it is an option for conv.'s only and I guess ? the Juliet page does not know this since some coupes are listed with A-85 and others not. I hope Terry plans hang around for a while because I will have other questions and some may be stupid, but, thankgoodness "stupid is as stupid does."
Steve
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Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
Not to be pedantic, but way of explanation all coupes were to have been equipped with shoulder belts. They therefore did not have 'option' RPO A85, it simply became part of the standard equipment list.
A similar example is the factory alarm known prior to 1971 as RPO UA6. In 1971 it became a standard feature of the car and ceased to be known as an RPO.Comment
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Re: 1970 coupe, A-85 option, need help !
Options listed on Juliet's site are composed and submitted by owners and are subject to human error.
You can claim your 70 Corvette has any option you want it too...I once claimed mine had the T60 heavy duty battery option since that was the only battery being repro'ed at the time. Of course, no one knows if a car started out with T60 unless they have an authentic tank sticker or order copy that lists that option.
I suppose Juliet reviews the submissions to make sure no one claims to have an LS7 or N14, sidepipes. Anyone listing A85 as a coupe option there has a little knowledge about options from reading The Corvette Black Book, but they missed the fine print about A85 being for convertibles only.Comment
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