67 -327 hard starting

[William F.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

Have you checked voltage to the COIL as John suggested?

[Robert K.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

It's the ignition switch. The start terminals are carboned up (from arcs). The run terminals are fine. Replace the ignition switch.

You want to test it, hot wire it. Connect a hot wire from the battery to the + side of the coil. Bet that'll fix it.

[Al R.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

Here's what I'm looking at. 12.3 volts at the "R" terminal of the starter and at the coil on both the + and - sides with the key turned to ON. While cranking the engine, the voltage falls to 5.6 volts at the "R" terminal of the starter and at the + side of the coil, but it falls to 2 volts at the - side of the coil. So, would this be normal, the solenoid, or the ignition switch? AND would this account for the skipping in the engine due to not getting enough fire?

[Edward J.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

Al, To add to Bob,s replay above make sure to check your terminals at the ignition switch sometimes over the years they will heat up and swell and cause a poor connection so you may not get full voltage. If you see the plastic connector melted slightly you know you have a problem.

When cranking your engine to start you are by-passing the ballast, so the coil should recieve almost the full battery voltage.

[William F.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

Need to get full 12V at COIL while key is in START position. If not, probably solenoid or ignition switch. At is point you might want to consider "professional help" if you aren't sure about things, like which ignition trigger you actually have.

[William C.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

The function of the "R: terminal on the solenoid is to provide full battery voltage when starting. It is normal for the voltage to drop somewhat during cranking, but the voltage you are measuring is WAY too low, as the starter will not crank at that voltage. If you are handy, you can pull the solenoid apart and make sure the contact for the R terminal is clean and making good contact, or (easier) buy a new solenoid from a reputable supplier (NOT OFFSHORE) and replace the current unit.

[Edward J.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

The function of the "R: terminal on the solenoid is to provide full battery voltage when starting. It is normal for the voltage to drop somewhat during cranking, but the voltage you are measuring is WAY too low, as the starter will not crank at that voltage. If you are handy, you can pull the solenoid apart and make sure the contact for the R terminal is clean and making good contact, or (easier) buy a new solenoid from a reputable supplier (NOT OFFSHORE) and replace the current unit.

Bill, don't forget he is measuring voltage at the solenoid terminal R, not at the battery lug on solenoid.if there is a battery thats low on charge or under load its dropping, the solenoid may not be a problem.Since theres only 5.6 volts at terminal R on start maybe the first step shoud be to remove terminal R connector from solenoid and then try and see if there is still 5.6 volts at the wire.

[Al R.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

Edward, thanks for that suggestion, but it has a new harness, however I will check it to ensure it is making good contact to the switch. Bill, the starter does crank the engine rapidly, just that the voltage drops on the R terminal and coil. Also, wondering if the voltage difference is OK from the + side of the coil to the - side or if that is a sign of the coil being weak. I'm currently back in Tn for a couple of days, but when I return, I'll pull the starter and check the solenoid for corrosion and contact. Is there a way to disassemble the ignition switch and clean the contacts inside, without destroying it. I checked around the usual LIC, CC, VV,CA, etc. last night and they did not have an original switch that was correct for this 67. If one was guessing, which would be the most likely one to be bad? Remember there is 12volts at the R terminal when switched on, but drops when turning the key to start. Again, thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions!! Al

[William C.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

ED, under cranking, the voltage at the "R" terminal should be AT battery voltage. there is No voltage at the R terminal with the key on and the starter not engaged. The "R" is a bypass circuit to provide full voltage (or at least what the battery will supply to the starter) to the coil under cranking.

[Edward J.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

Bill, exactly. I Have already said this in a prior post. there will be a slight voltage drop during cranking.

[Al R.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

Why do I show a reading of 12 volts at the pink wire Terminal R with the key turned to ON? Any places I should look to correct this? Remember, a new harness has been installed main and engine as well as A/C. When the Key is turned off, the voltage drops to O.

[William C.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

The pink wire is connected to the ignition feed at the coil. With the key turned on, that wire is hot, and you will see 12 volts at no load to ground as the resistor in essentially inert in the system when the engine is not running. The wire from the solenoid to the coil just bypasses the resistor to provide a slightly higher voltage for starting than what is supplied thru the ballast resistor. NORMAL Operation nothing to correct.

[Al R.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

Thanks Bill, I guess I mis-read what you were saying. I thought I had even bigger issues there for a while. I researched the archives on ignition switch rebuilding and found a post from you regarding this and will try to find the article when I return. Hopefully, I can put this to bed this weekend and start driving some. Still have to get the alignments done though.

[Richard M.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

I'm late reading this thread, and I've read it a few times. I may have missed something but this is what I've come up with.

From post# 18......"Before I forget, the breakerless conversion system is made by Breakerless SE Single Wire Ignition and is part #38131 made by M & H Electric Fabricators in Calif."

Reading the instructions on the M&H site for the Breakerless SE system is confusing.

Link to Tech Help....

http://www.breakerless.com/techhelp.htm

Instructions...

http://www.breakerless.com/seinstruct081304.pdf

In the WIRING section on pg 3 of the instructions it says to wire 12v directly from the ignition switch to Coil +.
"The +12V from the ignition switch must be connected to the coil (+) terminal." Hmmmm....

Later it says to continue to use the ballast resistor if installed. Huh????
"IMPORTANT: Ballast Resistor - This ignition is designed to work with the factory installed ballast resistor.".......It may
also be in the form of a small white ceramic block mounted on the firewall in series with the +12V supply to the
coil. Huh? If Ign RUN is wired directly to coil+, the BR is NOT now in series with the coil??? The BR is now bypassed.

Later it says to use the R terminal to the Coil +.
usually function if the bypass is missing; however, to guarantee starting under all
conditions the bypass must be in place." Confusing?
The way I read it, it says ignition switch 12v(ignition/RUN) to Coil+. If wired this way, then the ballast resistor is BYPASSED AT ALL TIMES! The coil always has 12v applied in RUN. Unless they're counting on a slightly higher voltage during START from the solenoid terminal to the coil+, I don't see the reason it's wired this way. Since you have 12V at the "R" terminal with IGN to RUN, and the R terminal is wired to coil+, it appears this is why you have 12v at coil+ in RUN.

If the coil requires a ballast resistor then it's a problem if the BR is always bypassed. If your coil has been stressed then a hot restart attempt could be a coil failure.

I think you may want to call M&H and ask them to clarify their instructions, which to me appear to be somewhat conflicting.

Rich
p.s.
One other test you may want to consider before tearing into your ignition switch.....or solenoid.
Jumper battery 12v directly to coil+, when cranking measure coil+. This will bypass your ign switch START/RUN contacts.
This will also bypass your solenoid "R" terminal contact. You'll have to isolate each one if results show different from your initial diagnosis of low voltage during START/CRANK.

===

[William C.]

Re: 67 -327 hard starting

Frankly, I'd trash the pertronics and see if the car will start with good old points and condensor. One good set of these will last 5-10 years with as much use as these cars see nowdays. to quote on old racer "Tricks are for kids!"