1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

[Dick W.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

The bottom line is nobody knows. You can get all the opinions you want but none of them are more than educated guesses based upon observing other pads that may or may not have been factory grind outs.

I have a 68 with tank sticker and POP. The ViN is a grind out. There are pictures somewhere in the archives. The consensus here was it COULD be a factory grind out, yet when it was judged it was questioned. The only consequence of this issue is resale as far as I'm concerned. I thought about doing the pad "certification" offered by one of our members. I probably will if I ever decide to sell. Then it is what it is. Then maybe I'll have a piece of paper that says " it COULD be a factory grind out."

Rich

And the certification is just an opinion

[Patrick B.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

The bottom line is nobody knows. You can get all the opinions you want but none of them are more than educated guesses based upon observing other pads that may or may not have been factory grind outs.

I have a 68 with tank sticker and POP. The ViN is a grind out. There are pictures somewhere in the archives. The consensus here was it COULD be a factory grind out, yet when it was judged it was questioned. The only consequence of this issue is resale as far as I'm concerned. I thought about doing the pad "certification" offered by one of our members. I probably will if I ever decide to sell. Then it is what it is. Then maybe I'll have a piece of paper that says " it COULD be a factory grind out."

Rich

In this case the vin is not ground out. Certainty would be gained by simply taking the head off to make sure the grain under the head is original and that the pad is still in the plane of the top of the block surface.

In your case the vin is ground out and replaced, introducing the possibilty of another block made the same day as your protecto-plate date was altered. Though possible, it is very unlikely that your block is not original. However, the opinions people here can offer are limited by seeing just the pad. If you want a better opinion, take the head off and show us the rest of the deck. It's not that hard. A certification service would face the same limitation.

[Steven S.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

I would like to thank all of the members here who have contributed in my thread. I did post in the Corvette Forum as well, just to gather as many opinions as possible, since I had never seen anything like this before.

The car drives great, looks great, and I believe the paperwork is all original. This 1970, 454 automatic, is priced just about $6000 more than a 350/300hp in the same condition, without any paperwork.

After I take delivery of the car, I will post many more photos of the car, and engine compartment.

Thanks again to all of you, and have a great week,

Steve Sperrazza

[Tim G.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

I'm glad your buying it. I made a similar decision on a low mile '65 coupe. The pad was ground and I couldn't imagine someone would do that on a 250 horse powerglide car. The moment of truth was when I brought it to be judged in Waco. Everyone loved the car and pad, I bought it because I loved the car and its history.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

I would like to thank all of the members here who have contributed in my thread. I did post in the Corvette Forum as well, just to gather as many opinions as possible, since I had never seen anything like this before.

The car drives great, looks great, and I believe the paperwork is all original. This 1970, 454 automatic, is priced just about $6000 more than a 350/300hp in the same condition, without any paperwork.

After I take delivery of the car, I will post many more photos of the car, and engine compartment.

Thanks again to all of you, and have a great week,

Steve Sperrazza

STEVE Glad you bought the Corvette. I love the real paperwork. I would take that over a stamp engine pad any day. BTW Logically it makes NO sense to grind out usage code if it was a restamp. They would have made it perfect.

[Michael J.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

Well said, man does not live by NCRS judging alone....

[Don H.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

I have to say I don't see the point of posting in the CF and also here on the TDB on a question like stamp pad authenticity, but I know that many seem to do it. If the experts on the TDB poopoo it, will it matter what the CF experts say? And if it gets thumbs up on the TDB, it will get same on the CF (by some of the same people). What's the point? Scratching my head....

[Marc S.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

I have to say I don't see the point of posting in the CF and also here on the TDB on a question like stamp pad authenticity, but I know that many seem to do it. If the experts on the TDB poopoo it, will it matter what the CF experts say? And if it gets thumbs up on the TDB, it will get same on the CF (by some of the same people). What's the point? Scratching my head....

I think if I was going to make such an investment on this car that has a questionable stamping I would go straight to Mr. Grenning and get his professional opinion before shelling out all kinds of $$$$. The forums help but you need a real expert to evaluate and give an opinon. It seems he is highly respected in the field and if he states in his opinion that it appears to be an authentic grindout, I think that would hold a lot of water and help a lot during resale. Just my two cents. Good luck to the OP on his purchase.

[Dick W.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

I think if I was going to make such an investment on this car that has a questionable stamping I would go straight to Mr. Grenning and get his professional opinion before shelling out all kinds of $$$$. The forums help but you need a real expert to evaluate and give an opinon. It seems he is highly respected in the field and if he states in his opinion that it appears to be an authentic grindout, I think that would hold a lot of water and help a lot during resale. Just my two cents. Good luck to the OP on his purchase.

Opinions are just that, nothing else. 'Nuff said, at least a couple other posters here will agree with me

[Marc S.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

Opinions are just that, nothing else. 'Nuff said, at least a couple other posters here will agree with me

Yes, sir. Even I would be one of the couple of other posters that would agree with you. I was merely suggesting if one were to pay $$$$ for such a car, one should obtain as many opinions as possible. It would have been nice if this car in question was flight judged prior to sale. The OP says that it is has been built back to NCRS specs. How do we know for certain? The car has never been judged. Personally, this would be an issue for me. I would have a lot more faith in my decision if a car with a questionable stamp went through judging and had no points off for stamp pad and was flighted. But that is just me. Best regards.

[Michael W.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

I would have a lot more faith in my decision if a car with a questionable stamp went through judging and had no points off for stamp pad and was flighted. But that is just me. Best regards.

That would be a very ill-advised thing to do. Judging does not attempt to authenticate a stamp pad nor does having a non-typical pad have a great overall impact on the Flight level a car might achieve.

[Marc S.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

That would be a very ill-advised thing to do. Judging does not attempt to authenticate a stamp pad nor does having a non-typical pad have a great overall impact on the Flight level a car might achieve.

Didn't realize this. Clearly I am misinformed then. Thanks for chiming in. I want to learn as much as I can. What would then result in loss of ANY points for stamp pad then?

[Michael J.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

Didn't realize this. Clearly I am misinformed then. Thanks for chiming in. I want to learn as much as I can. What would then result in loss of ANY points for stamp pad then?

The Assembly stamping is worth 25 points
The VIN derivative stamping is worth 25 points
The stamp pad surface finish is worth 38 points

I am not aware of partial credit for these, maybe some are?

If all found NTFP, then 88 points gone, so you could still Top Flight, or even Duntov if everything else was perfect.

[Paul J.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

Didn't realize this. Clearly I am misinformed then. Thanks for chiming in. I want to learn as much as I can. What would then result in loss of ANY points for stamp pad then?

Marc, the standard is whether any or all parts of the pad look like they could have been stamped at the factory. Hence the term, "Typical Factory Production" (TFP). That's what NCRS judges and there is no certification or guarantee by NCRS that anything was done by the factory, only that it looks like it could have been done by the factory. Any loss of points would result from a judge's opinion that any anomolies are not TFP, and there are exceptions, as have been discussed above.

Paul

[Marc S.]

Re: 1970 LS5 Engine Pad Stamp Question- Factory Grind Out or .... ?

The Assembly stamping is worth 25 points
The VIN derivative stamping is worth 25 points
The stamp pad surface finish is worth 38 points

I am not aware of partial credit for these, maybe some are?

If all found NTFP, then 88 points gone, so you could still Top Flight, or even Duntov if everything else was perfect.

Thanks for the reply. Michael Ward got me to thinking.....Once upon a time I was looking at a Top Flighted awarded car online and when I asked the seller if the car was matching numbers I was told it was absurd to ask that question on a Top Flighted car because if it wasn't matching numbers the judging would end right there. So if I am understanding Mike Ward correctly if the judging does not evaluate if the stamp is authentic then a total restamp of the block could actually get full points if it matches the VIN number on the pillar. Am I correct? I took what I was told as if the stamp passes the judging then the stamp is real. This does not appear to be accurate. I learn something new everyday and that is a great thing!