Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group

[Mark H.]

I just received my shipping data report. The original delivery dealer was Dealer Code 502 in Zone 0 and the name of the dealer Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group. I am trying to determine whether my car was indeed a GM Proving ground vehicle. Is there any way I can determine if it was a proving ground vehicle from the shipping report? There is a decal on the on the back on the removable window that lead me to believe that it was a proving ground vehicle along with the owner's attestation, but some have suggested that it might indicate the owner work at the proving ground.

Any help in this matter would be most appreciated.

[Ronald L.]

Re: Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group

CPC was a Roger Smith invention that took half of GM and put it in one combative group and the other have into another equally combative group. BOC. Better was when you were building cars in one plant for Both groups, each of the car name plates still had to have their thing. I'm not sure on the date now, but this was 1982 or so. What year car are you looking for info on???

Now to the question if the person worked at the proving grounds, other than if you had a physical delivery address documentation to that extent I'd find it a hard stretch to think that this was the case. It was a huge group that had plants and offices in Detroit, Warren, Pontiac and Flint, just for starters. This could have been an exec car, or could have been a Chevrolet owned car for the engineering group. More towards 1985 we had one of everything in the AVE group. RS's son got to drive (ruin) the Lamborghini

[Norm B.]

Re: Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group

Mark,

Have you checked out GM Vintage Services in Oshawa Ontario for information about your car yet?

http://www.vintagevehicleservices.com/

If it was originally delivered in Canada you will be amazed at the information they have on file, including the dealer it was delivered to.

Norm

[Art A.]

Re: Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group

Mark, you don’t say, but I assume that you are talking about your 1970? If that is the case, there is no way that it could have been a CPC fleet vehicle as the CPC Group did not even exist until Jan 1 1985. Dealer 502, Zone 0 was CEC (CHEVROLET ENGINEERING CENTER) Fleet vehicle office code until CPC was formed on that date. CPC continued to use said codes.
Even though CEC and CPC were not technically dealers or zones that sold vehicles to the public, they (GM) utilized that system to process vehicles for their engineering company vehicles. ALL Engineering GM company fleet vehicles that were eventually sold to the public were processed through a REGULAR GM Dealer or an auction house.

Yes a GM vehicle shipped from an assembly plant to dealer 502, zone 0 would be going to CEC (and later CPC), but the office that controlled all of their fleet vehicles was located at the GM Tech center in Warren MI. A CEC vehicle that was eventually destined for the GM Milford, or other engineering locations, was processed through CEC and shipped/driven there by engineering personnel.

I just received my shipping data report. The original delivery dealer was Dealer Code 502 in Zone 0 and the name of the dealer Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group. I am trying to determine whether my car was indeed a GM Proving ground vehicle. Is there any way I can determine if it was a proving ground vehicle from the shipping report? There is a decal on the on the back on the removable window that lead me to believe that it was a proving ground vehicle along with the owner's attestation, but some have suggested that it might indicate the owner work at the proving ground.

Any help in this matter would be most appreciated.

[Art A.]

Re: Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group


Hi Art,
Your information on the 00-502 code makes me want to ask if you have any more details on the codes used for "internal" GM cars during the 60's. NCRS has many of these codes but as you pointed out they changed with time and the ones we have are I think for late 70's and 80's. For example 00-500 is listed as Chevrolet Central office, 00-501 is Chev. Executive Garage, 00-503 is GM Corp GM Vehicle and so on through all the divisions and product groups. Another code we are trying to nail down is 21-006. It seems to be a code for Chevrolet Shop Work Order which was used for some of the cars that went to styling or were "presents" to people like Harley Earl!
Any help to NCRS would be helpful. Thanks Mark Lincoln Business Manager

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mark Lincoln,

I thought that I would respond to your e-mail to me here on the DB as it has some information that would be pertinent to the thread, I hope that it OK.

I did not say that the Zone/Dealer codes GM utilized changed with time; I said that the names of the divisions changed over time, i.e. CEC (00 502) became CPC and then MID-LUX, and a few others after 2000. It was 00-502 when I started in 1962 and was still 00-502 when I retired in 1999. I'm sure that the same applied to CCO (00-500). I cannot speak for the others because I had no direct connection with them.

As for the 21-006, to my knowledge it is NOT a Zone or dealer code, NOR is it a code used for Shop Orders (note, they were never referred to as Chevrolet Shop Work Order)...................Shop Orders numbers were just a plain 5 digits and didn't have a (-) dash in it. The SO numbers were assigned and controlled by GM design staff (styling).

Hope this helps

[Mark H.]

Re: Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group

Thanking everyone for the replies. This information will be helpful to me in tracking down the profile and history for my 1970 coupe. I have a letter from the first individual owner (GM Engineer), after it was delivered to GM CPC Group, attesting that it was a proving ground car, but I hoping that I could actually trace it's history through any GM data base of proving ground cars. This information is helpful. thanks again for all your help.

[Art A.]

Re: Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group

Mark, You mentioned that a GM Engineer indicated that your 1970 was delivered to "GM CPC Group". I don't think that would be possible as the CPC Group did not even exist until Jan 1 1985.
Do you know what the GM company car (Fleet vehicle) number was?

Thanking everyone for the replies. This information will be helpful to me in tracking down the profile and history for my 1970 coupe. I have a letter from the first individual owner (GM Engineer), after it was delivered to GM CPC Group, attesting that it was a proving ground car, but I hoping that I could actually trace it's history through any GM data base of proving ground cars. This information is helpful. thanks again for all your help.

[Mark H.]

Re: Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group

Thanks Art,

I used CPC Group (Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada) only because it was indicated that way on my shipping report. I believe I should have used CEC (CHEVROLET ENGINEERING CENTER) after your clarification.

I am trying to hunt down addional documentation or details and looking for fleet numbers.

Again thanks for you help!

Mark

[Art A.]

Re: Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group

Who generated your shipping report, the ncrs? If so, they are just causing more confusion.

Thanks Art,

I used CPC Group (Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada) only because it was indicated that way on my shipping report. I believe I should have used CEC (CHEVROLET ENGINEERING CENTER) after your clarification.

I am trying to hunt down addional documentation or details and looking for fleet numbers.

Again thanks for you help!

Mark

[Mark H.]

Re: Chevrolet/Pontiac/Canada Group

Yes, I purchased report through NCRS and that is how I obtained this information.