Midyear Interior Rearview Mirror - Date Question

[Everett Ogilvie]

This morning I happened to notice a Tech Tip in the Paragon catalog stating that the only interior rearview mirrors that were date coded are those where the glass is held in place with silicone adhesive or a snap ring. It says the crimped-in glass was not date coded. My '66 Judging Guide simply says they were date-coded, period (except the day/night mirror).

The mirror on my '66 convertible does not have a date code. The glass appears to be crimped in, as the edge of the metal all the way around is rolled over very nicely. It does not appear to ever have been replaced, as there is undisturbed minor surface corrosion on much of the rolled surface and on parts of the body of the back. This is a very early '66 car. The mirror back has two rivets, and the word GUIDE. What's the real story here; some were not dated?, no dates on crimped-in mirrors?, is there some cutoff date for crimped-in vs glued-in? I would regret replacing this mirror (with a dated one) if there is a chance that it is the original.

[Robert W.]

Re: Midyear Interior Rearview Mirror - Date Questi

My orginal 66 (Dec.65)interior mirror is exactly as you describe and when talking to vendors who restore mirrors and judges off line they indicate dating on this type mirror did not exist. The side view mirror did have dating which mine does if you get it in the right light. I chose to retain it for this reason even though I lost point for condition.

[Everett Ogilvie]

The AIM and Early Parts Book

The '66 AIM lists part numbers for interior mirrors (one for the std and one for the optional day/night), drawing date 3-16-66, with a footnote. The footnote says the part numbers were previously xxx and yyy, with a drawing date of 8-65. Therefore, during March '66 both the std and day/night mirror part numbers changed from those that had been in use since August '65.

My period parts book (November '66) calls out the "early" and "late" part numbers for the standard mirrors mentioned in the AIM. The early part number (910453) is listed as the '63-'66 chrome head and the late part number (911358) is listed as the '65 - '67 chrome head.

Here are my specific questions for a Team Leader or Master Judge - was the early standard mirror crimped and/or non-dated, and the later standard mirror not crimped but dated, and were non-dated standard mirrors used on early '66 cars? Note again, that the '66 Judging Guide simply says that '66 standard mirrors are dated - this does not appear to be the full story.

[John Lokay]

Re: The AIM and Early Parts Book

Everett, the inside rear view mirror in my 1966 coupe, built October 1965, is not dated with the sides crimped over like yours. I'm pretty certain its original.

[Everett Ogilvie]

Additional Thoughts

Thanks for the inputs John and Robert. John, if I remember correctly, your car and mine were built within a few days of each other. Let's be sure we are all talking about the same thing here - I am discussing the standard interior mirror, NOT day/night mirrors, with respect to dates or the lack thereof. It is understood and accepted that day/night mirrors are not dated. This discussion is around the possibility that some standard mirrors were also not dated.

I talked to some guys here in the local Chapter about the AIM information, and it was suggested that there might have been more than one supplier of these mirrors. At first when I saw the "Optional" part number in the AIM, I thought (probably incorrectly) it might mean the optional day/night mirror, but the part(s) for a production Option are normally listed in the appropriate Option section of the AIM.

No, it is more likely that the optional part number in the AIM is an alternate part that could be used in place of the primary part for the standard mirror. If you look in Adams' Vol II, for '63 he says there were 4 mirrors, with some alternate supplies involved on the assembly line. Why then not later years also? The DMI marking on dated mirrors stands for Donnelly Mirror Inc., the supplier of the glass. If it is indeed true that crimped-style standard mirrors are not dated, then did those mirrors (or at least the glass) come from a supplier who did not date the glass?

There appear to be several of us who have these crimped, non-dated standard mirrors. Guess what - I am no longer planning to trash mine and go searching for a dated mirror. I will keep it, and I am now of the opinion that it is likely the original.

[John H.]

Re: Additional Thoughts

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Everett -

Correct - anywhere the A.I.M. shows "opt." with a second part number, that indicates another part that's released for that usage (which shows in the Engineering Bill of Material, which we don't have) which can be used interchangeably with the listed primary part number. Judging is generally based on what has been observed on known-original cars or what has been observed as being "typical" of factory production in that date range, so if examples haven't been documented with anything other than the part bearing the primary part number, it may be difficult to "sell" the correct presence of an "optional" part, even though Engineering released it and authorized its use.