all corvettes

[Mike McKown]

What's the bitch!

The first SUV I owned (a '92 Explorer) got 22 mpg overall. The next trade-in went for a F-250 Pick-up Power stroke diesel. Same one that went in the Excursion. When driven at 55 mph, it got 24 mpg. Driven at 70 mph, it got 21 mpg. So, If you drive right, your fuel milage will be right also. So where does all this talk of 8 mpg SUV'S come from? Those that like to stir the pot or those that don't know what they are talking about?

The large majority of SUV's today will get in the range of 25 Mpg. So why all the bad mouth?

And that's better than a '63 fuelie with a 3.08 axle gets.

[Mike Yager]

Re: all corvettes

You are right! The CAFE regs helped the popularity of SUVs. People wanted large cars and pickups and SUVs are not subject to CAFE. Instead of station wagons, they bought suburbans.

I get burned by the people who complain about SUVs and pickups. While there are plenty of 4X4s that never see anything rougher than a shopping mall, I would have a hard time doing without my F-150 SuperCrew. I use it to haul everything I need to keep my four horses fed and my fields maintained. If I come home and it has snowed, 4X4 is needed to get up my private road until I plow it with my tractor. I also need a truck to haul the horses in the trailer.

[Duke W.]

Re: all corvettes

It sounds like you have a legitimate need for a big pickup. What gripes me is the Beach Cities (Southern California) matrons who drive Suburbans and Navigators in towns that have streets barely wider than alleys in most communities.

It also gripes me that the government assesses a "gas guzzler" tax on a handful of big sedans and exotic sports cars while letting truck based vehicles designed primarily to haul passengers skate. Also, "trucks" including SUVs don't have to meet passenger car bumper height, and if one ever whacks the back of your Corvette, you have a good chance of being burned to death!

The first ever million dollar liability award against a vehicle manufacturer was levied by a California jury back in the mid sixties as a result of a '63 Corvette being rear ended. The rear bumper was overriden and the fuel tank was ruptured sprewing fuel into the cockpit, which ignited. The C2s have a very vunerable fuel tank, especially to a vehicles with bumpers higher than the height range required for cars, and that's why the later C3s have a rubber fuel tank bladder. I don't think many understand how vulnerable our cars are to rear collisions.

I don't have any kids, but at some point in the life time of our kids generation or their children, we will likely begin to run out of crude oil, and prices will eventually triple or more based upon having to extract oil from shale, which will require substantial strip mining of the western slope of the Rocky mountains. The rest of the industrialized world is currently paying triple our retail price of motor fuels, so Americans go on blithely consuming inordinate amounts of oil because our government doesn't have the political balls to create real incentives to conserve, but just engages in foolish window dressing.

We may not see the effect of our high oil consumption in our lives, but our kids might, and our grand kids certainly will!!!

Duke

[George Romano]

Re: all corvettes

If we start NOW in Alaska drilling for oil, there will be enough oil till the end of time. The tree hugger wacko's won't let that happen either.

[Chas Kingston]

Re: Holding his own

Check in at the other site, Reba

Ol' Geezer

[Chas Kingston]

Re: all corvettes

OUR other vehicle is a '96 Buick Roadmonster Estate Wagon w/ a Chev 350 LT-1 motor that gets about 12 mpg in town. It has hauled 4x8 sheets of plywood and drywall, as well as immumerable 2x4s, conduit, and copper pipe sections. Still, unlike a SUV, spouse-woman can easily get behind the wheel and drive it, w/o the need for a step-ladder to climb into it. I do wish that they were still made, for we are about ready to trade it in.

Ol' Geezer

[Clem Z.]

Re: all corvettes

where we screwed up was when we let those arabs nationalize american oil company oil wells we should have sent in the army and took over the country, it was american money that developed those oil fields. there is no sense of working hard to get ahead if you can not enjoy the fruits of you labor and that includes spending your money on any thing you want.

[Duke W.]

Re: all corvettes

I think we currently have about 40 to 50 years of proven reserves, and perhaps double that if all the geological data proves to be true. At best we might have 100 years supply of extractable crude oil at our current consumption and expected growth in consumption. That's hardly "'till the end of time", which is why I say that our grandchildren and great grandchildren will be living very different lives in 50 to 100 years. Of course, if the current generations of consumers would excercise a little conservation, the inevitable price increases will be futher out, and more time means more opportunity for technology to provide cost effective solutions to the energy supply problem.

Duke

[Clem Z.]

Re: all corvettes

duke the problem i see is if america conserves the arabs will still want the same amount of income so they will do 1 of 2 things,raise the price or find someone else to buy the oil,so how do we benefit?

[Bill Braun 33186]

Re: all corvettes

Atta boy, Pasta!



btdf

[Bill Stephenson]

Re: all corvettes

Geez Geezer,

-------You better find out whats wrong with your Buick.Unless you are kidding about that 12MPG,you should get way more miles to the gallon around town.My Dad has a 94 version and gets around 15-17 around town with no special effort and 23-24 on the road.To add to that,he takes horrible care of it as well!I dunno,maybe you live in a real hilly area or something...........Bill S

[Duke W.]

Re: all corvettes

OPEC has a lot less influence on oil prices today than they did 25 years ago because their percentage of total world production is less due to other discoveries and developments. The price of crude oil is basically controlled by supply and demand, and when demand drops, the price also drops.

Conservation and development of new sources is what broke the OPEC cartel back in the eighties and prices dropped. Since then oil prices have lagged inflation, so on a relative basis, gasoline is about the same price as it was in the sixties, and "cheap gasoline" is why people no longer give much thought to fuel economy.

Since the US consumes about 40 percent of world production. if we reduced demand as we did in the early eighties, or at least cut the growth of our demand, I guarantee you that crude prices would drop. Most producing nations economy's foundations are built on oil revenue, and if demand dropped producers would most likey drop prices to try and gain market share to maintain total revenue, and this would spark a price war. The "price wars" at local gas stations back in the fifties and sixties was just a miniature version of this macroeconomic phenomenon.

Duke

[george romano]

Re: all corvettes

Geezer drag races all the old ladies on the boulevard!

[Verle R.]

Re: all corvettes

Duke,

To put some numbers to your concerns:

Oil reserves are generally stated in terms of what is economical to extract. As the price of oil goes up, it is feasible to extract more from a given reservoir. Present, proven worldwide oil reserves are about 1 trillion barrels. Present worldwide consumption is about 26 billion barrels.

Estimates of world wide oil shale reserves from 2.6 trillion to 17 trillion barrels. This figure is considered to be conservative in view of the fact that oil shale resources of some countries are not reported and other deposits have not been fully investigated. Various technologies exist for extracting this oil and research is continuing. Actual production exists in China, Brazil, and Estonia. The largest and some of the richest deposits are in the Piceance Basin of western Colorado, the Uinta Basin of eastern Utah, and the Green River Basin in southern Wyoming. The deposits are estimated to contain 562 billion barrels of recoverable oil. The total amount of fossil fuel present in the Green River Formation is much larger than all of the oil ever consumed by the United States.

The main barrier is cost of production. Once produced this oil can be processed in existing refineries. Unocal operated the last large-scale experimental mining and retorting facility in western United States (Colorado) from 1980 until its closure in 1991. Unocal produced 4.5 million barrels of oil from oil shale averaging 34 gallons of shale oil per ton of rock over the life of the project.

Another potential source is coal. Coal liquification technology exists for producing usable oil. Known, recoverable coal reserves are about 300 years. Again, cost of production is the limiting factor.

The present price of gasoline in the USA, minus taxes, reflects the worldwide market price of oil. Gasoline prices in other countries are much higher than in the USA because those governments choose to impose very high taxes, not for environmental reasons, but to support their social programs.

As oil production decreases and demand increases, prices will rise and at some point in the future it will be economical to produce oil from shale and we don't have to import that!

So, Duke, I think our children and grandchildren can still drive our trucks but they will pay a lot more for the fuel.

Verle Randolph

[Jack H.]

Excellent!

Each time I visit our brothers in the UK and pay roughly $6 per gal at the pump, a 'story' unfolds.... Before the North Sea discoveries, the UK was relatively petrol poor--similar to those nations on the European continent. Now, it's on an even keel with the US (producing about 50% of its own national consumption). So, why does gas cost 3-4X what we pay?

I hear all kinds of stories, but the pump price reflects tax content and THAT's where the 'action' is regardless of what UK locals say. Their economy is one of the more robust in the free world and there's simply no rational economic reason for the high petrol prices they grumble but pay anyway OTHER than the government's 'rake' to support social programs....

At one time we were on a fast track to develop Rocky Mtn shale reserves UNTIL the price of a barrel of oil plummeted in the early 80's. I can take you to quaint places on the Colorado western slope where entire cities were laid out, homes built and upscale oil & gas paychecked employees relocated to BEFORE the 'bust' with key players like Exxon pulling out en masse. Want a World Class retirement home on the cheap? They're still there....

The price of oil on the spot market is back to nose bleed levels, but nobody's out there risking capital to develop shale oil in the knowlege that IF Iraq is somehow freed to re-supply the world market, the supply bubble won't burst again....

Extractive technology is amazing. It's not a question of 'can' we do it--it's a question of IF we do it, will we profit when we do so.... Those who graduate from the Colorado School of Mines are as well versed in economics as they are in technology!