all corvettes

[Verle R.]

Re: Excellent!

I didn't have the privilage of graduating from Coors State but I did graduate from the University of Tulsa, a school that has a Petroleum Engineering School recognized around the world.

Verle

[Mike Yager]

Re: Excellent!

Jack:

Having spent time working in the UK, your post is absolutely correct. Filling up a large car or even a mid size SUV like an X5 can cost almost $100. Filling up a small economy car costs $30 or more.

They certainly are not spending the tax money on roads in the UK. People complain about traffic in the US. It is terrible around London. Most roads are old two lane country roads that are jammed with traffic. Roundabouts are everywhere, causing more traffic. There are very few interstate type roads in the UK and the ones that are there are full of traffic.

The taxes also don't go towards mass transit. While there is train service throughout the UK, the infrastructure is in terrible condition. Old equipment and run-down stations that look like they were built during the time of Charles Dickens.

Every time that OPEC raises the price of oil, that is one step closer to the US developing alternative sources. If gas were the price it was in the UK (without taxes), we would have plenty of domestically produced product.

[Bill#34162]

Re: Excellent!

I think the UK spends a good chunk of that tax money on their socialized medicine program.

My question is, what's wrong with using alcohol for fuel? God knows we can grow enough corn in this country. Race cars seem to run pretty good on it.

[Terry M.]

Re: Excellent! *TL*

Bill,
While it may not be on a Corvette technical issue, since I teach Automotive Technology at the only college in the state of Illinois with an alternative fuel program - and we do grow a bit of corn in this state - I'll tell you what is wrong with alcohol as a fuel:
When the ambient temperature drops below 30 degrees F, or so, it is difficult to ignite pure alcohol fuel. Thus we have E85 fueled vehicles available today - they can operate on up to 85% alcohol and/or 100% gasoline. That 15% gasoline is necessary for start-up in cold climates. Brasil has many vehicles operating on 100% alcohol - derived from their abundant sugar cane, but they generally don't have cold weather starting issues.
I must add that alcohol has fewer BTUs per unit volume than gasoline so the mileage of an alcohol/gasoline fuel will be lower than pure gasoline.
There are a number of very good sites on the internet which will give you the pros and cons of alcohol as a fuel or fuel additive.

[Bill#34162]

Re: Excellent!

Terry: Do you have a ballpark feel for the equivalent costs involved with alcohol production versus gasoline production? For example, if a gallon of gas cost $1.00 to manufacture, what would a gallon of ethanol cost assuming it was produced on an equal scale? $0.50, $5.00? Gasoline has 20,800 BTU/lb and ethanol has 12,800 BTU/lb according to my guide so I see why there is signigicantly less energy available for equivalent amounts. In any case those F1 cars still make an awful lot of HP on it.

[John H.]

Re: Excellent!

Formula 1 cars still run on specially-formulated high-aromatics race gasoline; IRL, CART, and most Sprint Cars run on methanol. My '02 Dodge Caravan is E85-capable, and the Owner's Manual has two pages of cautions about not using E85 in ambients below 30 degrees F, hard starting and poor performance in cold weather, 30-40% reduction in driving range under normal conditions, etc.

[Jack H.]

Re: Excellent!

If I remember my college chemistry, gasoline (based on octane as key ingredient) is something like 22 K-cal/mole while alcohol is in the 18 K-cal/mole range. So, when we blend farm produced alcohol from an environmentally 'safe/renewable' source into our fuel, we wind up DROPPING the energy content of the fuel (less MPG) to realize a 'highly oxygenated' fuel that's environmentally friendly. The economic dilema is we reduce efficiency on 100% of the US automotive 'fleet' to benefit the emissions profile of 2-5% of our fleet cars that suffer from poor maintenance/tune-up and produce the lion's share of hostile emissions!

It's a quick/easy political 'fix' vs. actually policing and ridding the installed base of the basket case polluting vehicles. But, living in an area that was one of the first in the nation to mandate blended fuel (Colorado front range), there's another Catch-22.

We add 'plentiful' alchol to the gas, which drops overall energy content/density, and watch the price at the pump RISE! Why?

(1) We're proliferating locally blended fuel(s) and losing economies of scale.

(2) The infra structure to manufacture AND TRANSPORT agriculturally generated alcohol to local refinery sites isn't there so OTR truck transport vs. pipeline is used making the economics of the 'deal' even worse!!!!

PS: I do not hold a School of Mine's degree.... Got bachelor's from Univ of Mich in Ann Arbor and master's from Purdue in Lafayette. Happy to report BOTH teams won their bowl games and I can rest in peace for another year!!!!

[Terry M.]

[Bill #34162]

Good with me *NM*

[Chas Kingston]

[Chas Kingston]

Re: all corvettes

Nope

Spouse has the lead foot. I drag race with my '02 brite yellar car. And darn few can keep up.

Geezer

[Craig S.]

Re: Excellent!

John - I know you have a Dodge background and you mention 02 Caravan. I am just curious about Caravans...seems like many late model (at least in the past 5-7 years) seem to burn oil to the point of visible smoke here in Tucson, usually right off the line at stoplights. Now, these days with self serve, lots of folks neglect proper oil changes and maintenance, but, this seems to be a trend when I see lots of these vehicles being smokers compared to others. Did they have any valve stem seal issues in the Caravan engines?....just curious...Craig

[John H.]

Re: Excellent!

Craig -

Not that I'm aware of - most Caravans have the 3.3 OHV V-6 that's been in production since the late 80's, and they're pretty well-developed. "Maintenance" is a lost concept these days - ever notice when you're driving at night how many cars you see with red and yellow warning lights on in the instrument cluster?

[Craig S.]

Re: Excellent!

True.....I am very leary these days to buy a used vehicle at all without detailed service records. The only good trend for the average driver is the advent of the lube pit center concept with the 10 minute oil change...probably saves a few engines.....Craig