NCRS JUDGING YJ8 vs RALLEYS

[GREGG PLAPAS]

My car has been entered into a NCRS judged event.The wheels on my car are the YJ8's.The car is a 1973 Coupe. I have just been informed that these wheels will cost me a lot of points as they are not correct.

I have numerous vintage articles showing this year of car with these wheels on numerous diffrent test cars and sales brochures. I am fully aware of the wheel history concerning the YJ8'S and realize that only four vehicles made it out of the plant with them on. One article has ZORA himself standing next to / over the vehicle (MOTOR TREND-JANUARY,1973).

Now, if I show proof (through these vintage articles) that the car was advertized with these wheels, would I avoid the point deduction? Should I change up to the ralley's?

The original owner ordered this car with these wheels under a constraint clause, and after being given the run around for so long by GM he FINALLY purchased these wheels over the counter at the dealership from which he bought the car new,in late 1975 early 1976. The wheel stamping's date to 1976. I do not have the original window sticker nor the build sheet, and I imagine it is still atop the gas tank. Any/all reply's to this matter are welcomed and please do not tell me to by a judging manual because it's not there, or maybe I just don't understand the verbage. This I am guessing will be the case.

THANKS
GREGG

[Patrick H.]

RALLYS

Greg,

The point of NCRS is "as factory delivered." As no 1973 Corvette was FACTORY DELIVERED with these wheels, it doesn't matter. The fact that they were planned and aborted means that your car should have rally rims.

This is true for any "planned but not produced" option, such as side exhaust for 1964 or the LS-7 motor for 1970.

Now you are welcome to show the car with any wheel you wish to use. The caveat is that you can't then complain when you lose points based on the NCRS's judging standard. Bring it to an NCCC concours meet and you may do fine.

Patrick

[GREGG PLAPAS]

Re: RALLYS

I am trying to get to BLOOMINGTON.

GREGG

[GREGG PLAPAS]

Re: RALLYS

OK, I think I know where this is going, and I guess you are right. It just seems a little unjust to know that your car will be deducted points because it is, as it was intended, advertised, etc...

thanks
GREGG

[Harmon C.]

Re: RALLYS

I have read in the TIJG page 52-53 that 4 sets of YJ8's may have been installed and a tank sticker or other paper work would be need to show they came on the 1973 Corvette being judged. I have looked at the wheels on Zoar's 1974 on display in the NCM which an NCRS article was written as real 73 wheels.If someone would have a real set on their 1973 with papers to prove they were installed at the factory those of us interested in the 73 would enjoy seeing them and they could get full credit. As the spare was also a YJ8 we could see the back to see if it was real. In your case you need the rallys as others have said. I am still looking at swap meets for 73 YJ8's or better yet a 73 with YJ8 paperwork.

[Joe L.]

Re: RALLYS

Lyle and Gregg-----

Yes, that's really the core of the whole issue. If one could DOCUMENT that a particular car was built in a certain way (in this case, with the optional aluminum wheels), then one would receive full judging credit.

As it is, you KNOW that the wheels were not factory installed and, consequently, there needs to be no search for documentation that they were factory-installed. In a situation in which, perhaps, 4 cars out of a total of 30,464 built could have had the option, I don't think that it's unreasonable for any judging organization to insist on documentation of originality.

[GREGG PLAPAS]

Re: RALLYS

OK,JOE

So how many points will be lost here, I can not see the expence of buying a set of rally's for the inspection?

thanks,
gregg

[Patrick H.]

Re: RALLYS

Gregg,

Rallys are cheap. Most of us use aluminum wheels like yours for "driver" tires, and then find a set of correct rallys with either original or replacement/reproduction tires to use for judging.

At least, that's what I do, and some of my friends.

The actual points deduction amount should be listed in your NCRS Judging Guide. Many of us spend a lot more on items "just for judging" and to garner more judging points than what one would spend on rally rims, so I'm not sure you'll get a lot of sympathy, even though we fully understand.

Patrick

[GREGG PLAPAS]

Re: RALLYS

WHERE DOES THE NCRS DRAW THE LINE UPON RESTORED AND FACTORY DELIVERED?

THANKS
GREGG

[Harmon C.]

Re: RALLYS

Restored - To put it back to as close to factory delivered. No better no worse.

[Gary J.]

Re: RALLYS

Yes, you are going to loose a lot of points time you count the wheel, trim rings and hubcaps. It could be enough by the end of the day you are in the Second Flight class instead of Top flight!

[Terry M.]

Points *TL*

Gregg,
The judging points are no longer in the Technical Information Manual & Judging Guide TIM&JG. They are no longer printed in teh manuals because as the score sheets were changed the manuals became obsolete. Thus folks were making inaccurate assessments on point losses. You, and any other member, can get a set from the National Judging Chairman - Roy Sinor. His email is on the contacts page here.
If I had the score sheets I would be happy to tell you the points assignment for wheels, wheel covers, and trim rings - but I don't have them.

[GREGG PLAPAS]

Re: RALLYS

I guess Bloomington is out of the picture with this problem, or until I get a set of rally's. Maybe next year? I am just not in a position to throw out another grand or more for this and I have to draw a line somewhere.Thanks for all the reply's.

GREGG

[Harmon C.]

Re: Points

Terry I looked this up.

Originality and Condition

Wheels 16 and 12
Weights+ stems+ caps 8 and 8
Trim rings+ Center caps 16 and 15
Spare wheel 4 and 3

At 2001 regional on 73 sheets

[Edward McComas]

Re: 73 YJ8 wheel option

I wrote an article for The Restorer many years ago about this very issue. Chevrolet records do indicate that 4 cars were optioned with the YJ8 wheel.

I suspect that this is not really the case. As I theorized by then, what I suspect is that Chevrolet records indicate that four cars were ordered with YJ8 wheels, and the orders never got changed. I recall the feeding frenzy back in 1973 when this wheel was announced. I personally know of two people that ordered new 73 Vettes, and both tried to get the YJ8 wheel. In both cases, the order had to be changed because the wheel was not available. Now, if four orders never got changed, and four customers paid for these wheels, even though they did not get them, I suspect that Chevrolet records would indicate that four cars had been "delivered" with YJ8 wheels.

To confuse the matter even more, Chevrolet accidentally lifted the ban on ordering the YJ8 wheel option for four days in October of 1972. No one knows why this happened, but I have a copy of the Chevrolet memo telling dealers that they could not order the YJ8 wheel.

Also, as I understand it, both NCRS and Bloomington have taken the position that if a 73 shows up with YJ8 wheels on it, then the owner must also provide some documentation that those wheels came on that car from the factory.

Last but not least, the 73 YJ8 wheels are slightly different than the 76 and later YJ8 wheels. It is possible to tell the difference. I have seen both wheels side by side, and you can see the slight differences. The 73 wheel was manufactured by American Racing, and the 76 and later wheels are Kelsey Hayes.

The 74 Vette that Zora Duntov took with him into retirement had the 73 YJ8 wheels on it. One of those wheels had to be replaced later because it cracked. It was replaced with a 76 and later wheel. That car is now in the National Corvette Museum.

This all reminds me that many years ago I promised John Amgwert a follow up article on the 73 YJ8 option. John was kind enough to send me some additional Chevrolet information after I submitted my article for publication. I guess I should get busy.