Black Plating Recommendations Needed

[Patrick H.]

Hello All,

I am in need of a plater who will be able to plate the many items from our 1966 coupe that are black oxide and/or black phosphate. We are in Michigan, but locale is not as important as quality. I found someone who will do gray phosphate, but not black.

That said, is there a way to differentiate black oxide vs. black phosphate? I have "new" examples of both obtained from a fasteners distributor friend, yet when I go in the hardware store, I see a variety of items called "black phosphate" which do no match each other in texture and sheen.

And should we even try to separate out one black from another, or should we just go with the more durable of the two?

I've seen black zinc as well, which is much more durable, but unfortunately too glossy to be correct.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Gary B.]

Black Phosphate

Patrick,

I definitely agree that black zinc is durable, but much too glossy and would be detected by most judges. Eastwood has a kit to do black oxide, but for some parts, I believe that black phosphate (which I've heard is often dark gray, not black) is how many parts came from GM. I've had a hard time tracking down a place near where I live that would do black phosphate. I believe that black phosphate will have some sort of characterisitc faceted glisten to the finish that can be seen when a part is tipped in a certain angle relative to a light source. Let me know if you find a place that does true black phoshate. I've had some people tell me they do black phosphate, but when you question them further, it turns out they do black oxide.

Gary

[John A.]

Re: Black Phosphate

Gents,

Check out the following link... http://www.detailplating.com/index.htm They may have what your looking for.

John

[Patrick H.]

Re: Black Phosphate

Gary,

Through the wonder of the Internet, I've even found a site that will tell a plater exactly what to do to make gray phosphate into black phosphate (ther is a difference). I just can't find anyone even willing to help me start!

In the black (not gray) hardware store bolts, I see less of that "glistening" than I do in a gray (not black) phosphate part, such as my hood latches or original seat tracks.

Patrick

[Patrick H.]

Re: Black Phosphate

Nope. He only does GRAY phosphate. Trust me. He's shipping all my BLACK stuff back to me now, having just done my zinc and gold iridite parts. He does NOT do BLACK phosphate.

I get the priviledge of paying for shipping two ways, though, on many, many pounds of bolts and nuts.

Patrick

beentheredonethatpaidtheshipping

[Terry M.]

Re: Black Plating Recommendations Needed

It may help in your search to realize that phosphating is generally used in metal forming as a part of a lubrication system. It is applied to the metal as a means of trapping lubricant in the metal forming operation. The phosphate itself does not provide much lubrication, but the "holes" that are formed in the metal by that process trap the lubricant (often a soap) that is used to aid in the forming operation. When I worked in that field (admittedly nearly 40 years ago), it was not regarded as a decorative finish. If those conditions still exist, a shop that does decorative work (chrome and so on) is not the place to look.
All that time ago there used to be shops in the Chicago area that were listed in the business phone directory advertizing "phosphating." You might start in that direction to see if there is one near to you. With all the automotive suppliers in Michigan I would expect - unless the EPA has killed the process - that you could find someone to do it.
Sorry this is so long, and I hope it is not WTMI (way too much information).

[Rob A.]

Re: Black Plating Recommendations Needed

I had my parts done here in S. California by Tech Plating. Cleaning of the parts is critical. If not perfectly clean prior to the process, there will be "bald" spots. Make sure whoever you choose, you ask them to beadblast and thoroughly clean them before plating. Inspect them before accepting them, and have them redone if any bare spots are found. I had mine done over for this reason. Sometimes the workers aren't told how important it is for the parts to be "clean" and handled with gloves before plating. A lot of companies will tell you they do it, but send it elsewhere for the work and charge you extra for it. There is usually a minimum charge, so make sure you take all the parts you need the first time. Ask for a sample to make sure they are aware of the difference between black oxide and phosphate.

Good Luck

[Bill W.]

Re: Black Plating Recommendations Needed

Try Aero Plating in Fenton MO.(St Louis) they did all my cad & zinc ,it looks great.314-667-1650

[Jack H.]

EXCELLENT advice!!!!

Few understand that many plating shop take parts 'as is' and give you 'best efforts' results UNLESS you specifically contract them to do extra-charge, surface prep work!!!!! It's their world and they generally ASSUME the guy who walks the parts in the door knows what he's doing.

Can't tell you how many times I've heard guys 'gripe' about the quality of this/that shop when others, using the same facility, were perfectly satisfied! The 'others' took the time to ask/get consel and either do the pre-plate surface prep themselves or paid the shop's adder for pre-plate surface preparation work....

[Patrick H.]

Re: EXCELLENT advice!!!!

My parts have been cleaned, cleaned and cleaned again. I de-rusted and polished them all, and they're perfectly ready. They've just made a 6000 mile trip for nothing.

I am hoping that I can find a reference from someone who has actually had this done. I've searched the Internet and found a few, but NOTHING can beat the references of fellow Corvette owners who have already been ther and done that.

Patrick

[Robert C.]

Re: Black?

I'm not really convinced that there was a BLACK phosphate process on early cars. I had all my phosphate plating done for my air-pump pully,pump muffler, hood latches,at a shop here in Dallas (Tear Plating) They do it every week. You are right when you say prep is importantant. I was not happy at first but had all my stuff double plated. This process comes out different shades of GRAY. The finished product seals the metal from rust unlike black oxide that only colors the metal black by a chemical process. Diamond -like sparkles are seen in the sunlight in the phosphate finish.

[Gary B.]

Black vs. gray phosphate

Patrick,

One source for gray phosphate plating is BrakeBoosters in Sanger, Calif, owned by Steve Gregori. Steve advertizes in Driveline. I e-mailed Steve to ask about gray vs. black phosphate and he said that he only does (charcoal) gray phosphate, but that black phosphate does exists, but he just doesn't offer it. Someone must do the correct black phosphate. If anyone knows of a reliable black phosphate plater, I would like to get the contact information.

Gary

[Craig S.]

Re: Black vs. gray phosphate

Gary - Steve Gregori (Brakboosters/Detaiplating) is I believe where Patrick sent his parts for the 6000 mile trip he references above...I would be very interested if anyone finds a black phosphate plater too. BTW, are the seat rails on my 66 supposed to be black or gray phosphate? I need to get them plated, I have cleaned up my frames and want to get them back together....Craig

[Gary B.]

Re: Black vs. gray phosphate

Craig,

I also asked Steve if he knew of anyone doing true black phosphate plating and he said, no. Now he could be trying to protect his business by not giving out the
names of competitors, but maybe black phosphate platers are a disappearing breed these
days.

Gary

[Craig S.]

Re: Black vs. gray phosphate

Gary - may be some of both....I talked to a plater here in Tucson, and the costs associated with some chemical disposal etc is getting sky high, and some plating operaation chemicals are much more regulated than others. I am sure this varies by state, and I am also sure that if the demand is low for a particular type of plating they just don't bother...so hopefully someone will chime in with a source. What type of plating are on your 66's seat rails...are they black or gray phosphate? Thx!...Craig