General judging question

[robert nissenbaum]

My car is a NOM 1970 LT-1. The car was repainted and I have redone the entire brake system including master cylinder (have the original), and gone with radial tires. The exhasut was replaced. The interior is missing a few minor items and has some wear, though in great overall shape. The chassis and suspension are untouched including the shocks. Returning the body, chassis and interior to Top Flight status should be relatively easy.

The decision to return the engine to Top Flight or as close as possible would only be made if the rest of the car already was and it was financially worthwhile as properly rebuilding the engine will be expensive. Not looking for investment value, but rather 'how much do I really want to spend'.

Given this, can I have my car judged for one area only? I would love to redo the interior, chassis, body, etc, get it judged, use the judging to determine the next step if any. I would love to have the car judged overall as most of it is probably correct. With a 71 block, no TI system, wrong carb, no shileding, wrong RH exhaust manifold, etc, I know it won't reach thrid flight. Do I still take the judge's time for a car that cannot possible 'flight'? I would love to if this is generally acceptable as I would have a 'checklist' of items to replace or fix.

I do not want to waste any judge's time to judge a car that is maybe 60-70% correct.

All thoughts would be appreciated.

Robert

[William C.]

Re: General judging question

Have it judged, most judges would enjoy spending time with an owner who is trying to learn something about his or her car. Judges can learn from unrestored cars also, moreso than restored versions.

[Henry J.]

Re: General judging question

I'm with Bill!

[Tom R.]

Re: General judging question

I agree! The judges will appreciate your candor and enthusiasm to learn more. Once the car is entered in an event and after the owner's meeting, approach the team leader and explain your objective. Then as each team readies for judging an area, explain your intent. They'll appreciate the insights and your goals for the car.

[Reba Whittington]

Re: General judging question

Talk to the judging chair of your chapter. We are evaluating two sections for a member at our meet tomorrow. He knows the interior and exterior are not salvageable, but wants to determine originality of mechanical and chassis before he begins restoration. It makes good judging school material for members to learn.

[Mike E.]

Re: General judging question

Robert--
As a long-time judging team leader, I'm encouraged by your questions. Too often judging is an ego thing instead of a learning and exchange-of-information experience. The chapter meets are designed to help facilitate the very thing that you are looking for. And if I ever had a judge who thought that what you're asking was beneath him, he wasn't judging for me beyond that meet! Enjoy!

[Jack H.]

Echo....

what others have said and I encourage you to have the whole car Flight judged at a local Chapter meet. Remember NCRS is a club. On any given day, some of us are 'judges' and others 'owners', but put aside all that and we're ALL MEMBERS!

Flight Judging is a SERVICE members perform for each other and you've actually got the 'right' attitude, in my book, -- you want to learn/know more about your car instead of walk-in/walk-out with the fancy ribbon and certificate.... That's what NCRS is all about! People helping people in the pursuit of restoration and preservation.

You've got a VERY healthy mind-set (want to learn/understand vs. get the award) and the whole affair should be not only educational but FUN!!!! Don't worry about 'bothering' the judges with your car in its current state. Remember, we're all members of the same club and that's what the whole process is SUPPOSED to be about (learing/sharing)....

[robert nissenbaum]

Re: Echo....

Wow. I am surprised by the answers. It seems like jduging is not just an award ceremony afterall. Everyone is correct that I could care less about the award. My car will be a driver (they were meant for that purpose in my opinion) and to Top Flight a car and then drive it for 20 years means the awrd will not carry much minetary value if I sell the car. For me, the learning process is the goal. I know quite a bit about the car and even have gotten in touch with the original selling dealer to see what they can tell me. As a rare car, I would like to preserve as much of it as possible.

Being new to the hobby, relatively young at 34, and not sure if I buy into the 'numbers matching' issue, the above answers made the decision about joining NCRS easy.

Thanks.

[Mike E.]

Re: Echo....

Robert--
Just let us graybeards do all we can to help out. This is a forum that I wish would have been available 29 years ago when I bought my first 62. It would have saved me a multitude of mistakes. I paid tuition to the school of hard knocks!
Mike Ernst

[Christopher R.]

Re: Echo....

This Board now fulfills the function that the "Restorer" did in the '70s and '80s. Your articles in there helped me with my car.

Look at some of the early technical articles in there. How to substitute something for stock to make the car work. Absolute heresy!

[Dennis C.]

Re: Echo....

You guys are right on. Good response.

[Kevin T.]

Re: Echo....

I am also pleasantly surprised with the responses to your question. I have thought about the same issue. It is doubtful that my 59 would ever achieve Top Flight status, but I would still be interested in having NCRS judges identify the areas on the car that are not correct - solely for my own interest and edification. I thought that they might be put out with spending time on a car that was not a realistic candidate. Chalk up another reason to value my membership in the organization. - Kevin

[Jack H.]

Little known fact....

MANY who come & join our chapter for the first time have a similar mind set--my Corvette isn't 'good enough' to be a Top Flight contender. My consistent answer is, BULL!

We are the ONLY factory concours organization where owner involvement/participation can influence the car's judging outcome (bonus points for milage driven to/from a meet). Why do we do that?

Well, we say, up front, in our rules that we ENCOURAGE owners to drive/use their Corvettes. When you put a car on the road, there's risk of loss/breakage and wear/tear on condition. So, the bonus points offered for milage driven are a form of compensation.

This doesn't 'cheapen' our Top Flight award, as any reasonable buyer simply has to ask how much of the Top Flight award came from milage driven credits. Plus, our Mark of Excellence awards address the car itself and preclude the use of milage driven bonus points.

Bottom line: I GUARANTEE anyone with a solid Second Flight Corvette can get their Top Flight ribbon and stand JUST as tall in the awards ceremony as the fella who hauled 'baby' to the show in a cozy enclosed trailer, by putting gas in the tank and driving the )(** out of his/her Corvette to a distant meet!

I know one member of my 'flock' didn't believe me. His '63 FI coupe had the wrong shade of red, the paint was enamel vs. lacquer, and the trim tag read Ermine White! Under the hood was a replacement 327 engine block. I made him a bet--you CAN get Top Flight, in fact you can get a National Top Flight ribbon and you don't have to spend the Gross National Product....

He did due diligence bringing the car to our chapter and regional meets. Fixing and improving the small items on the car that had been changed over the years. BUT, the exterior paint and the replacement engine STAYED.

Last summer, at the awards banquet in Monterey, Vance had his name called and received a Top Flight ribbon! Yep, he stood just as tall as everyone else in that receiving line and he didn't spend a bloody fortune on a car he simply wanted to own, preserve, and DRIVE!!!!!!!