C3 RE-JUDGING

[GREGG PLAPAS]

After you car has been judged and you receive you total score via the actual judging sheets used, can the owner use these judging sheets as an reference at the next judging, post modifications? What my real concern here is, if I make the required changes to gain a TF award, and then drive to have it judged as soon as possible, am I at the judges mercy at the new event, i.e. first time judging gives me one's for the whatever, on the second judging, I am now getting two's or three's, can I make any reference to the first sheets to rule on or have something over-ruled on. I am so close with a 90.9 I must ask. I would understand if I was told I revert back to zero when having the car re-evaluated, but I just wanted to check the further use of my judging sheets, if any?

thanks in advance.

[Harmon C.]

Re: C3 RE-JUDGING

I have been an owner many times and every judging is a new day. Use your sheets to fix the items you wish but be aware that the next judging their may be some new items that were overlooked. You will find that the system works very good and you should achive your goal as you gain knowledge.

[Chuck G.]

Re: C3 RE-JUDGING

It was good to meet you personally on Sunday, Gregg. I agree 100% with Lyle. Here's my recommendation. Go over all of your "big hits"...the obvious ones. Tires and batteries are usually 2 big ones. Correct the "big" items. Worry about the one pointers later, AND.....don't necessarily change something that you think is "correct". Every day judging is a new day

If you're sitting at roughly 91%, you need to get to 94%. That's 3 "big points" at 45 "little points" each. So, you've got about 135 points to make up along the way. Chuck

[Tom R.]

Re: C3 RE-JUDGING

Lyle makes a good point...trust the process but equally, trust your instincts. I would rather see an owner offer justification for some restoration or issue of originality rather than point to past judging sheets and events. Team leaders control the process and are quite knowledgeable about both guidelines and cars. Among C3 judges...it's a pretty sharp crowd from 68 through 82 and with many years of experience. But still, there are gaps in the knowledge base and we still don't know all there is to know.

However, the start point are those judging sheets and using those "recommendations" to complement your knowledge of the car. I say that because my first chapter event, a recommendation was made that if followed...would have undermined its originality. I let the recommendation go until subsequent events to learn "I was Ok!"

[Robert C.]

Re: Look Below in C3 part #-sorry *NM*

[Jack H.]

Agree with others....

they're giving you SOUND advice:

(1) each judging event is a new 'dawn'.

(2) use your judgement in assessing what/where you 'improve'.

(3) do NOT think you've heard all there is to hear after one judging!

I usually make a point in my chapter level Owner's Meetings along these lines:

(A) This is a club where MEMBERS donate their time to help their fellow MEMBERS.

(B) All members are human with individual strengths and weakness'.

(C) I can GUARANTEE you there will be mistakes of omission AND commission.

Bottom line, you'll hear a few things that are NOT true just as you'll not hear about issues that are true.... But, the central limit theorum (law of large numbers) governs and if you have the same car judged multiple times without doing ANYTHING, the bottom line score will tend to be the same regardless of the individual line item writeup(s).

[Dennis C.]

Re: Agree with others....

I agree with Jack and others: Good advice. Often the owner who suddenly produces previous score sheets at an event to question a point deduction will only want to discuss those deductions that work against them - not for them. In addition, producing these former sheets can be an affront to a judge that has spent an hour or two of their life judging your car. I would suggest these sheets are best left at home. Do your math there - improve your car - and re-visit the judging arena. The system, for over 25 years, has proven itself to work pretty well. DC

[John H.]

Re: C3 RE-JUDGING

Gregg, All these fellows are right on the money.
I have a 72 original owner. Had it judged at chapter judging clinic Sep 2002
and got a 89. I was very happy. Then I had it judged at a regional Feb.2003
with many improvements and got a 92.9. I again was very, very happy. I even lost 12 points for vacuum line that fell off during tech and my headlamp
doors and wiper door wouldn't open. The team leader plugged the line in and
judge was to erase the deduction, however I got so excited I didn't recheck
the correction and I lost the 12 points. No big deal. I even left my T-Top
hold down strap in my garage, preparation with your old sheets really would
pay off. Well here I am today and my repair shop (heater core replaced)
called me yesterday to tell me that my interior dash area caught on fire....
What a desaster.....They said the radio shorted out....B.S.
Gundy Insurance is coming out to handle the claim on Monday.
I think the yahoo left his trouble light aganist the exposed duct work and
it melted the duct when mechanic wasn't near the car, during heater core
trim installation, which was still all off the car.
I can't tell you how much I have tried to figure out what to about 2nd opinion
who to repair it etc....
I can tell you, ALWAYS USE YOUR BATTERY DISCONNECT WHEN CAR IS NOT RUNNING.
This wonderful repair shop is trying to tell me the car was not turned on, at it just caught on fire from the radio, Radio looks fine, even thought they
had removed it two months ago and then reinstalled it a week later.
Good Luck Big John

[GREGG PLAPAS]

Re: C3 RE-JUDGING

Thanks Guy's, Advice well said and taken. I have eliminated 132 point deducts from this past week judging. If all holds the same car would TF. But, to find more deducts I can correct or have corrected for me, will take some time, and of course money. Some of the issues that were brought to light are simply opinion, with this and that being too shinney or color shade, these I can not nor would I try to correct as it would lead to a complete repaint.

Well, I am not going there for numerous reasons.

The exterior judging is where I lost the most points, and I was a little upset with the amount deducted and why, as I thought this would be the area that I would have scored the highest. This is my main concern prior to registration at Hershey, which is over 100 miles for me to drive.The mileage points are a good thing as I believe this amount of miles driven could / would gain me a full point. This has already been figured in to the above 132.

As you can see from the above, I now have a real dilemma on my hands as to what to do next. That is why I asked for your response. If in the event it is rejudged and the 1's, become 2's and the 2's become 3's etc. This would all be for nought, other than my own satisfaction of knowing.

I'll make a decision soon and go from there.

All and all, for a first timer to obtain a 91 total over-all score, I feel pretty darn good, and I look at the car quite different now, with a big smile and a garage full of pride.

Thanks again for your input.
Respectfully,
Gregg Plapas

[Patrick H.]

Re: C3 RE-JUDGING

Gtegg,

Then you might consider another trial run at Seven Springs, if there are still openings. That's what I'm doing. I'm driving there from W Michigan so that the driving points offset the deducts from my street tires. My car was already a 96.9 under a previous owner (and on street tires), but I need to have it judged under my name before I can bring it to a National. I've also fixed a few deductions, so we'll see how I do there before the "final exam" in July.

Patrick