C3 Matching Numbers - Engine Code

[Brian Lynch]

I am looking to purchase my first vette and am looking at a 1969 L68 coupe. The owner claims that the car is a matching numbers car. I have verified that the engine code T1203LQ is correct for the car and the sequence number matches the VIN, but when looking through receipts from the previous owner, a new block was purchased along with a 427 numeral kit. There were also labor charges for 'Coding the differential housing to match the VIN' and 'swapping the trans case to correct dated case'. It looks like the shop has manufactured a numbers matching car. Is this an accepted practice in the NCRS and should I consider this a numbers matching car?

Brian

[Chuck G.]

Re: C3 Matching Numbers - Engine Code

I'd have somebody look at the engine stamp pad to see if it's been restamped. Is the block # correct? Is the casting date correct? Was the car originally a BB car? Any chance to talk with the previous owner? Something sounds fishy here. Chuck

[George D.]

Re: C3 Matching Numbers - Engine Code

Brian

Chuck's suggestion to have someone else look at the car is an excellent idea. However, you need to consider what you want to do with the car. Is it going to be a driver, do you intend to have it flight judged? Also, consider the price you are paying is it top dollar or a bargain. I spent 2 years look for my 69 and saw a lot of junk. It's easy to get caught up in the thrill of owning a Corvette. If you have doubts about the car I would walk away. There are others out there to be purchased. If you buy this one you may be unhappy.

Just my thoughts

Good Luck

George

[David W.]

Re: C3 Matching Numbers - Engine Code

Certainly sounds like a car that might not have been built that way from the factory but at least it doesn't sound lie the seller was trying to totally misrepresent the car or those receipts would have never seen the light of day. The price should reflect the historyof he car.

[TONY MERENDINO]

Re: C3 Matching Numbers - Engine Code

A real numbers matching car can only be produced by Gereral Motors at the time of manufacture. Anyone can configure a car as they like and get all the numbers to match even if it takes a little creativity.

Look for original documentation to determine if the components are as manufactured. Items like a tank sticker, original bill of sale, factory invoice, etc are support documents needed. There are many more big block numbers matching vehicles out there today than the General ever built. Only the ones that can be verified are worth the big bucks being asked. If the price is right, the car is right for you, and it serves your purposes -buy it. The value of a vehicle is what someone is willing to pay for one. Too many people today are looking for investment quality vehicles and if you are, then be aware that there are many fakes out there. You may want to do some research before taking the plunge.

[Greg L.]

Re: C3 Matching Numbers - Engine Code

FYI... Pontiac has a data base called Pontiac Historial Service in which you can send them a small fee and your S/N and they will tell you exactly what you have(GTO and not a GTO clone) as well as all the options that it came with from the factory. My brother also used a similar service like this with GM of Canada for his 67 SS/RS Camero. Again it listed all the options to verify that his car was what it was. I didn't go that route with my 69 L36 Vette because it still had the tank sticker. I am curious as to why there is is so much concern about fakes with corvettes. Is there no such reliable service avialable for our cars? I would think that that if my bro can verify his Canadian Camero that there should be some data base out there that we can all use for our Vette. Am I right or wrong?? Any thoughts on this would be great. Thanks

[TONY MERENDINO]

Re: C3 Matching Numbers - Engine Code

Wrong!!! The database for Corvettes built in St. Louis is no where to be found. When production shifted to Bowling Green these records went to "storage" never to be seen again. I kind of like to think it is somewhat similar to the movie Indiana Jones- Raiders of the Lost Ark. At the end of the movie the Ark of the Covennant is placed in a huge government warehouse right next to the Corvette St. Loius build records and is never seen again.

So in effect there is no verifyable source for the original configuration of these cars. That is why finding the "tank sticker" which is the assembly line build order sheet is tantamount to finding the "holy grail" in the Corvette hobby. GM of Canada kept its own records since all vehicles shipped to Canada where in effect imported and like records where maintained. If you have a Corvette that was sold new in Canada then you are in luck with GM records but if it was distributed domestically you are out of luck.

[Greg L.]

Re: C3 Matching Numbers - Engine Code

Thanks for clearing that one up for me Tony. I didn't fully realize the importance of the tank sticker untill now! With that said though,I'm a little concerned about my next Vette. In a year or so I plan to sell mine and replace it with a 427 convertible. How much weight do you think the tank sticker alone really has as far as documentation goes,giving the fact that it should be quite easy to reproduce and "age" a fake tank sticker? I guess you really have to do your home work before purchasing any of the high end cars don't you? Thanks.

[John H.]

Re: C3 Matching Numbers - Engine Code

Greg -

Tank stickers aren't the "end-all" documentation either, as the VIN for the car they were attached to weren't pre-printed on them until 1971 production. Caveat emptor, especially for a big-bucks car.