C1 Front End Alignment Question

[Christopher R.]

After replacing the kingpins and some control arm bushings last Winter, finally finished off the job by getting the front end aligned. Ran into the usual problems having an old car worked on by people who know it all. I mean, they're nice enough, but they can only do it their way. After much negotiation, got the steering wheel straight; got the toe right; and, got the camber right. At least now I won't be ruining the new tires I bought. Car drives pretty good, but never got it up to highway speeds.

My question regards the caster. Mechanic says he couldn't adjust the caster. I know that's wrong, but it was time to cut and run. Caster is now at:

LF .8
RF 1.3

ST-12 wants the caster at 2 degrees, +/- 1/2.

What do you think? (About the caster settings, not the mechanic.)

[John M.]

Re: C1 Front End Alignment Question

Chris,
The specs are correct. The caster will keep the car tracking straight at speed. It is surprising that he said that he could not adjust the caster, since it is the same adjustement screw as the camber! He may have meant that he could not get it to spec, and this is not all that uncommon given the hard life that some of these cars have seen. It is also quite easy to affect the total caster available by how you start the upper bushings on the upper-inner shaft.

Regards, John McGraw

[Wayne P.]

Re: C1 Front End Alignment Question

If it drives sraight be happy.

[Robert Willis]

Re: C1 Front End Alignment Question

Caster is adjusted by adding shims between the front crossmember and the frame. The wedge shims that are in there now control this. The upper adjustment moves the wheel in and out only not front to back as needed for caster. The C-1s are from the old school. Bob

http://members.kos.net/willisb/

[John M.]

Re: C1 Front End Alignment Question

Robert,
The upper adjustment screw adjusts both the caster and camber. The ecentric goes from max camber to min camber on every turn but the ammount of turns on the adjusting screws adjusts the caster. The shims are not an adjustment, but were an addition in 1957 to increase total camber for high speed stability. There was one pair of shims on every car after 57. You get the caster about right with the screw and then adjust the screw a max of 1/2 turn each way to get the camber right.

Regards, john McGraw

[John M.]

correction

Obviously, I meant total caster not total camber!

[Dennis C.]

Re: correction

My experience is that most modern day shops have never adjusted one of these cars, don't know how to do it, and don't understand the concept, even after you explain it to them. Two of my cars had a big old stack of shims inserted between lower rear control arms and mounting surface in an attempt to alter caster. One had longer bolts installed to allow more shims. Got rid of the shims, adjusted the camber and caster properly and left - no problem. Have to find someone that wants to learn and work with them... Good Luck, Dennis

[John M.]

Amen Dennis! *NM*

[Dennis C.]

Re: Amen Dennis!

John - Got to wondering last night. Can you imagine what some young front end alignment guy must be thinking when you tell him the first thing he needs to do to align the front end is unscrew a grease fitting...

[John H.]

Re: Amen Dennis!

The hard part is convincing them that one screw controls both caster and camber; pays to take the ST-12 with you (and an allen wrench) so you can "train" them. Most alignment guys who know these cars are retired, using a walker, or taking a dirt nap

[Christopher R.]

Re: Amen Dennis!

That was my experience. Nice people, but predisposed to believe the customer doesn't know anything, and to the extent to which the customer does, it means nothing but problems for him.

First he looks up the car on his machine, a Hunter. Strangely, it had the specs for 1960 to 1962 Corvettes that matched the ones I brought from the ST-12. But not for the '53s to '59s. That's all he wants to know. Now I'm no good to him, and a possible threat to his authority. He wants me out of the service area. There's another screen on the machine with pictures that tells them how to make adjustments. When he clicks on that, though, a message comes up telling him the rear is not adjustable. Hmmm. I started to tell him about the grease fitting, and he blew me off stating he already knew that. He may have remembered from the last time I was in and asked whether they wished to attempt the job. Or, he may just trust his machine, despite the message. 15 minutes later he's back out to me in the waiting room asking an unrelated simple question. Then he mentions, "You take out the grease fitting, right? Maybe you better show me." Also took the time to show him the locking bolt. This is all I wanted to do in the first place.

This is the jovial, overweight, middle aged, white guy, hands-on Service Manager. The young, ethnic, hip mechanic is rolling his eyes while all this is going on. He's doing the work, and he probably thinks we're both morons. He probably gets paid piece work, and none of this is making him any money.

[Dennis C.]

Great Story "NM" *NM*

[John M.]

Re: Amen Dennis!

Dennis,
I can tell you what the young guy that aligned my 60 a while back thought!
He thought that I had lost all my marbles and didn't know where to find them.
The only reason that he listened to me was the fact that I came in with the correct allen wrench in hand. As John pointed out, it was hard to get him to understand the concept even after showing him!

Regards, John McGraw