Hershey Convention "Day Tripper" Question

[Mike Cobine]

Re: Hershey Convention "Day Tripper" Question

Ed,

I would think a good lawyer would have a field day with anyone being ejected from an event opened to the public.

Now if the NCRS member was trying to get into special events not open to the public for which you had to register to attend (seminars, meetings, etc.) then that would be grounds to toss them.

But the public events? Heck, rip up your card and pay the gate price, it would be cheaper.

A non-member and a member walk in to see things for two days. The member pays $90 at the convention gate, the non-member pays what? $10 a day? $15 a day?

Whatever the non-member pays, it is a real incentive to become a member. (sarcasm) Most organizations give the members a CHEAPER rate.

You wonder why NCRS is graying with a policy that invites new people this well?

[Bill Braun 33186]

Mike...

you dope.

We will be in the States at Carlisle, enjoying the camaraderie of all Vettedom regardless of club affiliation. So your chances of running into us are limited to the airports.

Seriously, if you are in the Schwarzwald area in mid August, shoot me a mail.

We would be pleased to meet SWMBO. You can come along too.

btdf 33186

[Bill W.]

Re: Hershey Convention "Day Tripper" Question

Having helped in planning and putting on a couple if nationals ,regionals & chapter events I can tell you it is VERY expensive to have these at a nice indoor place. meeting rooms for teck sessions, tabulation & storage rooms .banquet,judges lunch,parking and most of all securety. I agree public both members and non members should be able to see the cars and meet owners & judges. but on the other hand if there are not enough regestered members we will go back to hotel parking lots and parks.I do think some of the prices have gotten a little high. 60.00 to register is not to bad but 210. to be judged even with the 100 rebate seems a little high.

[Mike Cobine]

Re: Hershey Convention "Day Tripper" Question

I agree it is expensive, and understand why they want and need the money.

But it is a foolish course of planning that groups have done to calculate their income in this manner. If they can't base their budget on the number registering because they are showing or selling and any income from gate fees and product sales, then they are not budgeting realistically. (Let's face it, making the volunteers who enable an event to exist to pay the registration is pretty dumb; volunteers would pay to work are even dumber. I wonder if my mechanic will pay me to bring my car in on Monday?)

If a member is coming and taking advantage of the tech sessions, banquet rooms, judging, and such where the public is not allowed, by all means he should pay the registration or leave. At Cypress, the non-paying pubic didn't get into where the cars were on display and being judged, not without paying.

But to expect him to foot the bill for the chapter simply becasue he is a member of NCRS (and probably not of that chapter) is ridiculous. Maybe the next step is to plan an event, and then mail every NCRS member a bill for their share of the event, even if they don't come.

Most are looking at this wrong - the member who shows up isn't looking for something free, he is looking for equal treatment as non-members. He isn't looking for better treatment, he is looking for equal treatment. Right now, chapters are treating the member worse.

If the members quit coming, the public will quit coming, and if they are quit, the vendors won't have a reason to come, and suddenly you are back to 100 guys with cars and 50 judges and staff sitting on parking lot wondering if this is worth $500 each out of their pocket to pay for an event with no vendors, no gate, and no visitors.

Forcing a member to pay the registration when he does the exact same things a non-member does for free or a very small fee is a good way to have the members not show up. Or quit.

Like most volunteer organizations, the objective is to encourage people to come and participate, not chase them away. Why would anyone join so they can pay not just higher prices, but much higher prices?

[Reba Whittington]

Re: Hershey Convention "Day Tripper" Question

I was not going to say more on this subject, but feel compelled to respond to this last comment, since I have helped plan a convention. For those who have not participated in the process, let me assure you it is mind-boggling. The national convention is for ALL members. And it is an expensive undertaking.

The host chapter makes no profit on a convention, and sometimes the national organization doesn't either. Members of the host chapter do the paperwork, phone calls, negotiating with vendors, and leg work to insure that all members have a enjoyable experience.

Look at some of what is involved: The site contracts and budgeting process begin two to three years in advance. (The site for the 2005 convention has already been selected.) The host chapter cannot predict how many people or cars will be attending. Projections are made and they may or may not be anywhere close to final numbers. It is not until the registration deadline that actual numbers of cars and people are known.

When we began planning the 2000 Bowling Green convention, Sportsman and Heritage classes didn't exist. 1984-86 cars were not being judged when this year's convention planning began. Transportation for all the day trips and family activities have to be contracted well in advance with only estimates to rely on. For one trip at Bowling Green, we had to add a second bus when numbers came in.

I agree with a previous comment that our costs have been increased by having indoor facilities for judging. But I for one do not want to go back to the July 2 that I judged 10 cars on an asphalt parking lot in Williamsburg, VA. I certainly didn't spend long in the last three cars with black leather interiors. We also have seen a need for family activities because most people make this their vacation week, and the majority of wives and children do not want to spend their time on the judging field.

Sorry this has turned out to be so long. Many people do not think about all that goes on behind the scenes. I am sure that national officers could tell even more.

[Mike M.]

Re: Hershey Convention "Day Tripper" Question *NM*

[Mike M.]

Re: Hershey Convention "Day Tripper" Question

Reba: as usual, you hit the nail on the head.the reason the fee schedule was modified in the early to mid-90's by the board was due to a handful of NCRS members who got their PhD's in attending our events without paying the usual and customary fees.In every organization, there is a small % of members who specialize in "pulling a fast one" . thank god the majority have scrupples.mike

[Mike Cobine]

Re: Hershey Convention "Day Tripper" Question

Since this is the technical discussion area, I decided I had already said too much non-tech here and wasn't going to continue.

I have said several times, if the non-registered NCRS member attends for free any of the events the public cannot, then he should be asked to leave or pay the registration. If the public can attend it free, then the NCRS member should be able to do so equally. I don't advocate the NCRS member getting away with something.

IMHO, if people are walking in free to the tech sessions and such, then someone isn't doing their job of checking registrations of the attendees. If you don't fence the chicken coop, don't get mad at the fox for taking them.

After all, NCRS membership doesn't guarantee morality, ethics, or honesty; it simply means they paid their annual dues. To assume otherwise is foolish.

If you catch non-registered NCRS members attending tech sessions, judging classes, banquets, and the like and they haven't paid to do so, then you could do the following:

1. Ask them to leave the site immediately.
2. Ask them to pay to continue.
3. Hand them a bill and ask for immediate payment.
4. Send them a bill and suspend their membership until paid.
5. Ban them from any NCRS event until paid.
6. (The real hardline) Call the police and charge them with theft, just like any other business would do to a person stealing something. After all, they are using without paying and that amounts to theft.

However, to charge an NCRS member $90 to walk around an open-to-the-public swap area or display area when a non-member can walk around for free or $5 or whatever is simply wrong.

[Mike Cobine]

Re: Hershey Convention "Day Tripper" Question

"The national convention is for ALL members."

Actually, I believe it is only for those who paid to attend. Otherwise, the general membership would pay the bill of the convention and no one would care if a member was registered or not, as they had already paid.

The complaints were that non-paying NCRS members were attending for free, which couldn't happen if it were indeed for all members.

Just like city park, where everyone goes in free, because they already paid in their taxes.

Just like a public highway, where we all drive for free, because we paid with our taxes.

If the convention is for all of us, then every member should get a bill for $50 per year to pay for it (or however much) and we all attend for free.

But that isn't how it works, is it?

How it works is that those who use the services pay for them. And that is how it should be. To charge people for services they are not using just because they a member is wrong, just like mailing the entire membership a bill for a meet only a small percentage actually attend.

To charge a person $75 or $100 to attend something your neighbor or co-worker can attend for free simply because you are a member is wrong.