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Check out the price of a PF 25. EBAY item # 2426737715
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Re: More EBAY Insanity
Bob------
Believe it or not, I've seen quite a few of these "white" PF-25s go for this price. However, I'm not sure that the original filters used in Corvette PRODUCTION had the embossed script seen on the underside of the filter. I think that this may have been (a) unique to SERVICE filters or, (b) unique to Canada-manufactured filters originally used only on Canadian (St. Catherines)-built engines. Of course, none of these engines were ever used in a Corvette.In Appreciation of John Hinckley -
Addendum
When I said that no Corvette ever used a St. Catherines, ONT Canada-built engine, I was specifically referring C3s. 2003-2004 Corvettes ALL use engines from St. Catherines and some earlier C5s did, too. No C1, C2, C3, or C4 Corvette ever used a St Catherines-built engine.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Speaking of the PF-25
The current PF-25 has been eliminated and replaced by PF-454. The 454 considerably shorter that the PF-25 it replaced. What gives?Comment
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Re: More EBAY Insanity
Elmers is an interesting place - they have a lot of old parts many in NOS or easily restorable condition. They are the ones who sold the original windshield washer nozzles for $200 plus on ebay.
I went up there to trade a BB 65 hood for a nice original SB 65 hood.
It is run by a father and son. The father seems to buy and the son seems to sell. They are nice people.
Joe Lucia would probably have fun there.
DaveComment
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Re: More EBAY Insanity
The "embossed" vs. "unembossed" PF-25 controversy exists on the NCRS judging field. The 70-72 JG says either is correct, but some judges believe the embossing is required and deduct for lack of it. I have a pretty large collection of PF-25's and the only box that I have seen embossed filters in have only 1969 on it. Any 70 up date or similiar box always has an unembossed filter in it. My theory is 1969 cars had the American embossing on the bottom and 1970 up filters did not, therefore embossing may or may not have been used in 1970. If GM used embossed PF-25's for service in 69 wouldn't they have used them on the assembly line. ???? Conversely if 70 service PF-25,s lacked embossing why would have used embossed filters on the assembly line. ?????Comment
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I'm Guilty
I have purchased two of the 'embossed' PF-25 oil filters. Each were about 130.00 plus shipping. I have consistently been dinged for points on my 69 because of a lack of embossing on the judging field. I know it seems nuts, but, hopefully these will last a long time on a limited use basis. Both were purchased from Elmer and both were truly NOS, a term I find way over used.
Regards,
Mark DonnallyComment
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Re: Speaking of the PF-25
Brian------
They say that nothing is forever. I guess many folks thought that didn't apply to the PF-25 since it's been around since 1968. But, things do change and, apparently, the PF-25 is "history". I'm sure that this is connected with the inevitable changes that are taking place since DELPHI was "spun-off" from GM. Things that GM used to do with its parts divisions that may not have made good "business sense" according to "conventional wisdom", DELPHI is changing. One of those things involves oil filters. This business is "too competitive" (translation: not profitable enough) for DELPHI and they may drop the manufacturing of oil filters ENTIRELY. Then, some other oil filter manufacturer will likely start producing the filters sold in AC-Delco boxes and labeled as AC-Delco. In the meantime, I expect that DELPHI wants to "pare down" the plethora of oil filter configurations and "streamline" their oil filter manufacturing operations in Flint, MI. The PF-25 won't work in PF-454 applications, but the PF-454 will "work" in PF-25 applications. So, the PF-25 "goes". Who knows what's next?
Former "AC" operations in Flint, MI are on DELPHI's "hit list". So are Delco suspension parts operations in Dayton, OH.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: More EBAY Insanity
Dave------
The chances are that the PRODUCTION and SERVICE oil filters manufactured and used during any given time period would be the same. However, it's POSSIBLE that this would not be the case for several reasons. One of those reasons came to my attention with my 1992 Corvette LT1. As I'vbe mentioned previously on this board, the original AC PF-51 oil filter used in PRODUCTION for that car was black in color with a black and silver label. All PF-51 SERVICE oil filters available during that time were blue with blue and white labels. Later in 1992, the PRODUCTION oil filters changed to the same color as SERVICE. I think that the reason for the black oil filters was so that a service rep could tell if an engine had not had proper service at the time that an engine warranty claim occurred. Obviously, if someone came in to the dealer with a "blown" engine at, say, 20,000 miles and still had a black filter installed, the rep would know that the filter had never been changed as required by the maintenence service schedule. Later, GM may have found some less conspicuous means of "coding" PRODUCTION oil filters.
For the above-referenced reason it's POSSIBLE that there was a difference in the PRODUCTION and SERVICE oil filters used for the 68+ period. The bottom embossing may have been the difference. But, this is purely speculation.
Somehow or another, I keep thinking that somewhere I heard that the embossed filters were made at AC plants in Canada. On your filter with the embossing or the box that it is packed in, is there any reference, at all, that might indicate a Canada-produced part? It may be very subtle.
One of the problems determining what filter was used in PRODUCTION for these 68-72 era cars is that few exist with their original oil filters. However, and incredibly, I know of one. As I've also mentioned previously, a friend of mine factory-ordered and purchased a 1970 Camaro Z-28. He took delivery on May 19, 1970, the day of my brother's wedding, and never drove the car again after that first day. Since I was at the wedding that day, I never even got a ride in it. It has about 160 original miles on it today. I KNOW that it has all of its original components except the battery. He took that out of the car very early on to preserve it, but while stored on his work bench it developed a leak and he (or his parents) discarded it as a hazard.
That car would answer some questions regarding what oil filter AND air filter was being installed during the spring of 1970. I would fully expect that the PF-25 oil filters and AC 212CW air filters installed on Camaros at that time were the same as Corvettes. The oil filters pretty much for certain since the engines were built on the exact same line at Flint. I keep saying that I'm going to get out there to see him and check this out. However, I've been waiting to get my "ZL-1" project done so I can drive the car out there to show it to him at the same time. I'm afraid what he'll say if I go out there without the car finished since it's been so long since I last saw him and told him I was working on the project.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Speaking of the PF-25
Filter media and packaging have improved since the PF-25 came on the scene, and there has been some good research on particle generation. The bottom line is than modern engines don't generate much in the way of particles, so the large volume filters of yore aren't really necessary. A primary application for the PF-454 is the 8.1L medium duty truck engine, so it should be more than adeqaukte for a vintage Corvette engine.
Also, as Joe said the relentless competitive pressure in both the OEM and aftermarket parts business dictate that parts be consolodated whenever possible. It's too bad we didn't hear that the PF-25 was going away, I figured it would be around forever considering the millions of engines built and still in use that use them. Now anyone with a stash of PF-25s just fell into a potential bonanza.
The one big advantage of the PF-454 is its built in anti-drainback valve. This doesn't do anything on a V-8 with it's "right side" up mounting, but the high horizontal mount on my Cosworth Vega sure likes it.
I wouldn't be too quick to spend over $100 for an NOS PF-25. It's a fairly easy part to manufacture, so I expect someone will offer a licensed GM reproduction version in the not to distant future, but it will probably be a ten to twenty dollar part instead of a five dollar part.
DukeComment
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Re: More EBAY Insanity
Joe,
That 70 Camaro would answer a lot of questions and go a long waty to clearing up this controversey. The boxes on all my embossed PF-25's have Made in USA on them(bottom). The embossing on the bottom of the white filter is BEST WAYT TO PROTECT YOUR ENGINE, REPLACE WITH AC. I believe that is the American version as I've seen others with different embossing which I think are Canadian. All the American PF-25's have the lettering so it is right side up when the filter is installed on the car. The Canadian filters seem to be the opposite of that. I recall seeing a PF-25 with a raised embossed AC only on the center of the bottom with the Canadian form of lettering (upside down).
I've got similiar questions with the 212CW air filters but lets save that for another day.Comment
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Re: Speaking of the PF-25
Paragon sells PF-25 filters. "Oil filter,PF-25, disposable, white w/red and blue silk screen as original. Also fits 1964-67 Chevy II 283, 327." I used this filter on my 71 and it passed flight judging. The price is $20.00.Comment
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Re: Speaking of the PF-25
I figured that they probably filtered better than the PF-25 of the past. I'm using mine on a 1987 305 El Camino, 22,000 mile Bow Tie candidate oh never mind.Comment
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Re: I'm Guilty
Mark As I recall six pack paid two or three times what you did so you may have got a bargin. I think you paid the going rate from someone who is willing to sell and knows what people have been paying. In five years I bet it will grow more than money in the bank. The special parts go up faster than the cars. LyleLyle
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Re: JOE:
You DO intend to finish that ZL-1, don't you?
GeezerComment
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