Paint Question

[Jack H.]

he is arisen!

UJ's really out there/here. See above response jotted without reading the whole thread. Talk about 'Ed McManon' situations!!! (Don't mean to lose you there, mate, -- that's a Yank slang term based on older US telie talk show for a 'sidekick' or 'straight man' in a comedy duo).

I was hanging around enjoying the nice warm weather with 'Lil Red (my '71) and visiting an annual old car swap meet over the the weekend. Didn't check NDB posts because I was out heavy breathin' and finding 'gems' at the swap meet. Actually picked up some NOS untouched C1-C2-C3 Corvette Owners manuals and warranty booklets. Wow, neat finds!

Think the paint deal is answered above if poster will 'ring up' Pete at Mech-Spray in Claremont. Also, there's right as well as wrong in the advice that's been given.

Original lacquer paints DID have embedded metallic particles. They WILL oxidize/turn dull if they're not protected. That's why original dealer prep on these cars included a wax job and why continued application of wax is needed to protect the paint (seals surface that WAS NOT clearcoated at the factory against air)....

Solution then, was routine maintenance of paint surface with high quality wax to protect. Solution today is application of final clearcoat to underlying surface. This results in NCRS deduction (OBVIOUS APPLICATION OF CLEARCOAT). There are painter tricks to have your cake and eat it too (use of 'inobvious' application of clearcoat) for cars that owner intends to drive seriously as well as show. For cars that are basically show oriented, don't worry. Go without any clearcoat (as factory original) and keep 'em nicely waxed....

[Jack H.]

Surprise - GDaina!

Having spent time in the UK (first NCRS judging school and first Flight meet) last year, our British cousins have a few 'tricks' they can teach us! The operative phrase in your response is 'here in the US'....

Spent a lovely afternoon with painter Pete at Mech-Spray in Claremont (a devoted NCRS-UK chapter sponsor and super neat guy, learned his trade in California doing radical customs and TV special cars, did the Batmobile) trying to understand their emissions laws vs. ours, their painter cost structure vs. ours, their materials source(s) limitations vs. ours.

They do NOT take the emission enforcement approach we do. Instead of a jillion cop/firemen doing 'no knock' inspections, they take a 'civilized' approach to emissions. Pick a community, bring in IR scanning equipment, 'sniff' the air for a baseline period, find the 90% offending sources, and crack down on those. Small potatoes 'infringing' establishments are left alone! Don't have US Constitution (equal protection amendment) burden as we do w.r.t. law enforcement. Small artizen paint shops are left ALONE and can/do shoot lacquer without NEMA type recovery burden!!!!!

All the major US paint supply sources ARE present there, given a mix code they can/do custom blend. Now EAT YOUR HEART OUT! Cost of material and labor to do a World Class paint job appears to be anywhere from 1/2 to 1/10th what we pay!!!!!! Plus, looking at high end British paint jobs on the judging field, there was something 'odd' we couldn't put our fingers on. In retrospect, I suspect the blend components they use to make the same custom code # we buy are either identical to what was originally shipped to St. Louis or much closer than what we see here!!!

[Jack H.]

Surprise - GDaina!

Having spent time in the UK (first NCRS judging school and first Flight meet) last year, our British cousins have a few 'tricks' they can teach us! The operative phrase in your response is 'here in the US'....

Spent a lovely afternoon with painter Pete at Mech-Spray in Claremont (a devoted NCRS-UK chapter sponsor and super neat guy, learned his trade in California doing radical customs and TV special cars, did the Batmobile) trying to understand their emissions laws vs. ours, their painter cost structure vs. ours, their materials source(s) limitations vs. ours.

They do NOT take the emission enforcement approach we do. Instead of a jillion cop/firemen doing 'no knock' inspections, they take a 'civilized' approach to emissions. Pick a community, bring in IR scanning equipment, 'sniff' the air for a baseline period, find the 90% offending sources, and crack down on those. Small potatoes 'infringing' establishments are left alone! Don't have US Constitution (equal protection amendment) burden as we do w.r.t. law enforcement. Small artizen paint shops are left ALONE and can/do shoot lacquer without NEMA type recovery burden!!!!!

All the major US paint supply sources ARE present there, given a mix code they can/do custom blend. Now EAT YOUR HEART OUT! Cost of material and labor to do a World Class paint job appears to be anywhere from 1/2 to 1/10th what we pay!!!!!! Plus, looking at high end British paint jobs on the judging field, there was something 'odd' we couldn't put our fingers on. In retrospect, I suspect the blend components they use to make the same custom code # we buy are either identical to what was originally shipped to St. Louis or much closer than what we see here!!!

[GDaina]

It's up to the NCRS Deep Thinkers.............

I just don't get it the way they think. Eventually the Lacquer will no longer be available, and the deep thinkers WILL BE FORCED to concede and allow clear coat. Why fight the inevitable? There was a reason clear coat was introduced, and that was for environmental purposes, plus it looks better, has deeper depth. I saw a 68 in my color, British Green in clear coat, and let me tell you, lacquer can't hold a candle to that finish, unless you apply wax every day for 365 days.

[GDaina]

It's up to the NCRS Deep Thinkers.............

I just don't get it the way they think. Eventually the Lacquer will no longer be available, and the deep thinkers WILL BE FORCED to concede and allow clear coat. Why fight the inevitable? There was a reason clear coat was introduced, and that was for environmental purposes, plus it looks better, has deeper depth. I saw a 68 in my color, British Green in clear coat, and let me tell you, lacquer can't hold a candle to that finish, unless you apply wax every day for 365 days.

[Thomas C]

Re: Surprise - GDaina!

Hi Jack.

You gave me Pete's name about 8 months ago. I contacted him yesterday and he turned out to be a super guy. Really helpful. He told me the "trick" to blending and protecting the paint and squeaking by the judges (snicker). He's even sending me some "true" clear (cellulose) lacquer. Thanks for leading me to him. Are we going to see you at any events over this way this year?

tom

[Thomas C]

Re: Surprise - GDaina!

Hi Jack.

You gave me Pete's name about 8 months ago. I contacted him yesterday and he turned out to be a super guy. Really helpful. He told me the "trick" to blending and protecting the paint and squeaking by the judges (snicker). He's even sending me some "true" clear (cellulose) lacquer. Thanks for leading me to him. Are we going to see you at any events over this way this year?

tom

[Jack H.]

[Jack H.]

[Jack H.]

Re: Paint Question

Benefit of the doubt always goes to the owner and I'll be the first to admit it's possible to find paints that are 'dead ringer' for the original lacquer. All painter/owner has to understand is the on-field 'test' that's used when paint composition is questioned.

Owner is spotted a clean soft shop towel, wax with minor abrasive characteristics and asked to pick a spot of his choice. Apply wax and demonstrate that color will 'lift' as original lacquer is known for....

Every time I've seen the question raised and the owner was able to 'lift' color in reasonable qty, the benefit of the doubt was cheerfully granted and no deduction was taken. All that's going on here is an attempt to honor/recognize the car/owner who took the pains to do reasonable due diligence in restoration/preservation vs. he/she who shot was looked pretty/worked well....

[Jack H.]

Re: Paint Question

Benefit of the doubt always goes to the owner and I'll be the first to admit it's possible to find paints that are 'dead ringer' for the original lacquer. All painter/owner has to understand is the on-field 'test' that's used when paint composition is questioned.

Owner is spotted a clean soft shop towel, wax with minor abrasive characteristics and asked to pick a spot of his choice. Apply wax and demonstrate that color will 'lift' as original lacquer is known for....

Every time I've seen the question raised and the owner was able to 'lift' color in reasonable qty, the benefit of the doubt was cheerfully granted and no deduction was taken. All that's going on here is an attempt to honor/recognize the car/owner who took the pains to do reasonable due diligence in restoration/preservation vs. he/she who shot was looked pretty/worked well....

[Jack H.]

Take the plunge?

Was in UK twice in '98. Local chapter just held Flight 99 at Leeds Castle last weekend. You missed meeting the 'lads' and having fun in the rain (sorry for truth on British Isle weather).... Boys suggest time starts in Greenwich and Y2K will be a BIG difference in weather making London environs rival the riveria and perhaps it's time for Uncle Jack to return to his island 'homeland'.......

Suggest it's time you take the plunge and pony up a few measly quid to join your NCRS British brothers and get active in your local chapter. Then, you wouldn't have to re-post to NDB to find Pete lurking in Claremont (hope you said hello for me!). Should I forward the number for UK chapter membership chairman, or can you find OK locally?

[Jack H.]

Take the plunge?

Was in UK twice in '98. Local chapter just held Flight 99 at Leeds Castle last weekend. You missed meeting the 'lads' and having fun in the rain (sorry for truth on British Isle weather).... Boys suggest time starts in Greenwich and Y2K will be a BIG difference in weather making London environs rival the riveria and perhaps it's time for Uncle Jack to return to his island 'homeland'.......

Suggest it's time you take the plunge and pony up a few measly quid to join your NCRS British brothers and get active in your local chapter. Then, you wouldn't have to re-post to NDB to find Pete lurking in Claremont (hope you said hello for me!). Should I forward the number for UK chapter membership chairman, or can you find OK locally?