Paint Question

[GDaina]

Yes, initially

Around late summer, early fall EPA said lacquer will not be sold and not be produced as of 1/1/99. Special interest groups (Car Clubs) lobbied and the sold mandate was lifted, but production ceased as of 1/1/99. Stores can still sell existing stock, but when that runs out, no more lacquer,

[GDaina]

Yes, initially

Around late summer, early fall EPA said lacquer will not be sold and not be produced as of 1/1/99. Special interest groups (Car Clubs) lobbied and the sold mandate was lifted, but production ceased as of 1/1/99. Stores can still sell existing stock, but when that runs out, no more lacquer,

[Tony H.]

Re: Yes, initially

How long before this event impacts, if ever, judging of paint (base coat/clear coat vs laquer)?

[Tony H.]

Re: Yes, initially

How long before this event impacts, if ever, judging of paint (base coat/clear coat vs laquer)?

[Thomas C]

Re: Paint Question: Is Jack Humphrey out there?

Jack sent me an e-mail about a year ago on this subject and gave me a point of contact over here. I'm trying to get a hold of this guy. Thanks for the response. Hopefully he'll be able to shed some light on the subject.

tom

[Thomas C]

Re: Paint Question: Is Jack Humphrey out there?

Jack sent me an e-mail about a year ago on this subject and gave me a point of contact over here. I'm trying to get a hold of this guy. Thanks for the response. Hopefully he'll be able to shed some light on the subject.

tom

[Thomas C]

Re: Don't they drive on the wrong side?

"confusing lacquer with urethane"

Actually he is calling it Cellulose. I get in trouble when I start asking for lacquer, because then he wants to sell me what they call 2 pack. The stuff that you have to mix the hardener with, and I know that's not the right stuff. So they call lacquer, "cellulose". It's the stuff that you mix lacquer thinner (called cellulose thinner) with and spray.

"Lacquer paint (metallic or otherwise) cures through the evaporation of solvent. You can put clear lacquer on top of color lacquer, but you certainly don't have to in order to get the color to shine. Urethane cures through a chemical reaction rather than evaporation. There are one stage urethanes that come in most automotive colors, but there are two stage urethanes as well. The "basecoat/clearcoat system" refers to a two stage urethane finish. It is true that the basecoat is thin, relatively dull, and not very durable. The clear coat is applied to give shine and protect the color coat from physical and sunlight damage."

Lacquer is what I think he's talking about when he says cellulose. I think the "two stage urethanes" are what they call two pack. I'm so confused. I wish I could just order some from the states and bring it back. Seems it may be easier. But I'll check with this poc that Jack Humphrey has given me and see what he has to say. He paints a lot of corvettes, and hopefully he'll be able to shed some light. Thanks for the response.

"Last year someone in France asked me to post the formula for his paint color in lacquer. He said the local Dupont dealer didn't have it in his reference material. Could this be the reason that your English salesman is talking about a basecoat when you're asking about lacquer? "

I don't know. Don't even get me started on paint matching. I have the PPG paint codes, but his are different. They use different base colors than in the states, so he has to get in touch with detroit to find out the cross reference.

and yes, they do drive on the wrong side.....sure makes it hard to pass when I'm sitting in the corvette. Think about it!

tom

[Thomas C]

Re: Don't they drive on the wrong side?

"confusing lacquer with urethane"

Actually he is calling it Cellulose. I get in trouble when I start asking for lacquer, because then he wants to sell me what they call 2 pack. The stuff that you have to mix the hardener with, and I know that's not the right stuff. So they call lacquer, "cellulose". It's the stuff that you mix lacquer thinner (called cellulose thinner) with and spray.

"Lacquer paint (metallic or otherwise) cures through the evaporation of solvent. You can put clear lacquer on top of color lacquer, but you certainly don't have to in order to get the color to shine. Urethane cures through a chemical reaction rather than evaporation. There are one stage urethanes that come in most automotive colors, but there are two stage urethanes as well. The "basecoat/clearcoat system" refers to a two stage urethane finish. It is true that the basecoat is thin, relatively dull, and not very durable. The clear coat is applied to give shine and protect the color coat from physical and sunlight damage."

Lacquer is what I think he's talking about when he says cellulose. I think the "two stage urethanes" are what they call two pack. I'm so confused. I wish I could just order some from the states and bring it back. Seems it may be easier. But I'll check with this poc that Jack Humphrey has given me and see what he has to say. He paints a lot of corvettes, and hopefully he'll be able to shed some light. Thanks for the response.

"Last year someone in France asked me to post the formula for his paint color in lacquer. He said the local Dupont dealer didn't have it in his reference material. Could this be the reason that your English salesman is talking about a basecoat when you're asking about lacquer? "

I don't know. Don't even get me started on paint matching. I have the PPG paint codes, but his are different. They use different base colors than in the states, so he has to get in touch with detroit to find out the cross reference.

and yes, they do drive on the wrong side.....sure makes it hard to pass when I'm sitting in the corvette. Think about it!

tom

[G B.]

Ah...now I think I see.

The salesman is probably talking about nitrocellulose lacquer, not acrylic lacquer. Nitrocellulose was widely available in the U.S. up until the late fifties when acrylic lacquer was adopted by GM. You can still buy nitrocellulose lacquer through small manufacturers who advertise in Hemmings. I've never shot any myself.

My guess is that it would be an incredible hassle to import enough lacquer supplies from the U.S. to paint a car. If it was me, I would just pick a pretty color from the Sikkens urethane chart and go with it. But, according to my wife, I've always been a cheap (and easy) date.

[G B.]

Ah...now I think I see.

The salesman is probably talking about nitrocellulose lacquer, not acrylic lacquer. Nitrocellulose was widely available in the U.S. up until the late fifties when acrylic lacquer was adopted by GM. You can still buy nitrocellulose lacquer through small manufacturers who advertise in Hemmings. I've never shot any myself.

My guess is that it would be an incredible hassle to import enough lacquer supplies from the U.S. to paint a car. If it was me, I would just pick a pretty color from the Sikkens urethane chart and go with it. But, according to my wife, I've always been a cheap (and easy) date.

[Bill W.]

Re: Paint Question

There is a misconception here about paint. The NCRS doesn't care what we paint our cars with! The judge's only concern is "Does is APPEAR to be lacquer"? If the answer is "yes", there is no debate, or deduction. Talk to any of the team leaders or our national judging chairman. Bill

[Bill W.]

Re: Paint Question

There is a misconception here about paint. The NCRS doesn't care what we paint our cars with! The judge's only concern is "Does is APPEAR to be lacquer"? If the answer is "yes", there is no debate, or deduction. Talk to any of the team leaders or our national judging chairman. Bill

[Jack H.]

Re: Paint Question

Go see NCRS UK-chapter sponsor 'Pete' at Mech-Spray....

[Jack H.]

Re: Paint Question

Go see NCRS UK-chapter sponsor 'Pete' at Mech-Spray....

[Jack H.]

he is arisen!

UJ's really out there/here. See above response jotted without reading the whole thread. Talk about 'Ed McManon' situations!!! (Don't mean to lose you there, mate, -- that's a Yank slang term based on older US telie talk show for a 'sidekick' or 'straight man' in a comedy duo).

I was hanging around enjoying the nice warm weather with 'Lil Red (my '71) and visiting an annual old car swap meet over the the weekend. Didn't check NDB posts because I was out heavy breathin' and finding 'gems' at the swap meet. Actually picked up some NOS untouched C1-C2-C3 Corvette Owners manuals and warranty booklets. Wow, neat finds!

Think the paint deal is answered above if poster will 'ring up' Pete at Mech-Spray in Claremont. Also, there's right as well as wrong in the advice that's been given.

Original lacquer paints DID have embedded metallic particles. They WILL oxidize/turn dull if they're not protected. That's why original dealer prep on these cars included a wax job and why continued application of wax is needed to protect the paint (seals surface that WAS NOT clearcoated at the factory against air)....

Solution then, was routine maintenance of paint surface with high quality wax to protect. Solution today is application of final clearcoat to underlying surface. This results in NCRS deduction (OBVIOUS APPLICATION OF CLEARCOAT). There are painter tricks to have your cake and eat it too (use of 'inobvious' application of clearcoat) for cars that owner intends to drive seriously as well as show. For cars that are basically show oriented, don't worry. Go without any clearcoat (as factory original) and keep 'em nicely waxed....