black phosphate

[Chuck G.]

Re: black phosphate

Hello Roberto; Gun blue is a liquid chemical material used to refinish gun barrels. I know nothing about guns, but the "bluing" material is available here in the states at any store that sells rifles/shotguns (K Mart, etc). As others have said, the metal you are refinishing MUST be perfectly clean and free of "finger fat". The gun bluing gives a nice blue/black finish to fasteners. Chuck

[Chuck G.]

Re: black phosphate

Hello Roberto; Gun blue is a liquid chemical material used to refinish gun barrels. I know nothing about guns, but the "bluing" material is available here in the states at any store that sells rifles/shotguns (K Mart, etc). As others have said, the metal you are refinishing MUST be perfectly clean and free of "finger fat". The gun bluing gives a nice blue/black finish to fasteners. Chuck

[Lou Lapham]

Re: black phosphate

Tony-There is another product made for the tool and die trade called Tool Black.This is a chemical blackener that leaves a reasonably durable gray black finish that will vary in intensity if you leave it on longer.By experimenting i have gotten some nice variations.This is availible thru J&L Industrial Supply which has branches around the country.I am sure it also carried by other tool supply houses for the machine shop trade.Let me know if you have trouble finding it.Regards,Lou

[Lou Lapham]

Re: black phosphate

Tony-There is another product made for the tool and die trade called Tool Black.This is a chemical blackener that leaves a reasonably durable gray black finish that will vary in intensity if you leave it on longer.By experimenting i have gotten some nice variations.This is availible thru J&L Industrial Supply which has branches around the country.I am sure it also carried by other tool supply houses for the machine shop trade.Let me know if you have trouble finding it.Regards,Lou

[Jack H.]

Re: black phosphate

As others have said much depends on material surface prep, handling, and after-plate finish. You've seen a handful of parts I cad plated for you using the system. Have yet to see significant deductions unless the final finish or application of plate isn't right.

With cad, there was 'dull' and 'bright' finish where the later was rinsed in a mercury bath for final buff (followed curvilinear surface contours 'heaps' better than trying to do manually on a soft buffing wheel). Also, some cad process' left a rather distinct goldtone to the cad. Can duplicate to some degree with a soft brass brush in final polish.

Once the part is surface cleaned, NOT handling with your skin (acid and grease) helps a BUNCH to get even coverage in the plating tank. The kit you get from Eastwood consists of a rather simple lantern battery for the power souce. We swapped a variable DC supply made from toy train transformer, off-the-shelf diode bridge module (convert AC to rectified DC) and a capacitor to smooth 'lumpy' DC. Works SUPER.

Some chemistry supplied by Eastwood, comes 'close' to original look but is NOT identical due to EPA/toxin dangers of distribution. But, I'll bet you have a real leg up on us in Argentina with relaxed laws in this area....

[Jack H.]

Re: black phosphate

As others have said much depends on material surface prep, handling, and after-plate finish. You've seen a handful of parts I cad plated for you using the system. Have yet to see significant deductions unless the final finish or application of plate isn't right.

With cad, there was 'dull' and 'bright' finish where the later was rinsed in a mercury bath for final buff (followed curvilinear surface contours 'heaps' better than trying to do manually on a soft buffing wheel). Also, some cad process' left a rather distinct goldtone to the cad. Can duplicate to some degree with a soft brass brush in final polish.

Once the part is surface cleaned, NOT handling with your skin (acid and grease) helps a BUNCH to get even coverage in the plating tank. The kit you get from Eastwood consists of a rather simple lantern battery for the power souce. We swapped a variable DC supply made from toy train transformer, off-the-shelf diode bridge module (convert AC to rectified DC) and a capacitor to smooth 'lumpy' DC. Works SUPER.

Some chemistry supplied by Eastwood, comes 'close' to original look but is NOT identical due to EPA/toxin dangers of distribution. But, I'll bet you have a real leg up on us in Argentina with relaxed laws in this area....

[Jack H.]

Re: black phosphate

Call around Bs As and find a gunsmith. Translate the English for 'gun blue' literally and explain you don't have la idioma. Bet you he understands immediately!

Guns and rifles have a sleek black finish on steel barrels/body. This finish wears off with use/abuse. When a pro cleans a shotgun or pistol, it's common to take a cloth soak it in 'gun blue' and wipe down the exterior surfaces to restore smooth/uniform black finish, then apply oil over the bluing to protect.

Unfortunately for those highly visible items on your Corvette that were black phosphate (screws in door sill plate, on wiper door, on rear air extractor grilles) gun blue isn't a real good answer. These parts are exposed to wind, weather and touch/abrasion. Gun blue is a temporary surface agent that easily rubs off needed constant re-application.

As Fred Oliva says, it's cheap and readily available here (we DID have trouble translating English/English in England on this....) and a final surface coat of oil or silicon lube works fine for the trailer queen that doesn't see much use/abuse.

In a daily driver application, you'll be pretty much in a constant maintenance mode. The paint Rolf mentioned (think it IS in the Paragon catalog & might be in C-Central as well) is better. You have to get the part really clean (blast cabinet or HEALTHY work against a wire wheel) for the paint to adhere uniformly and not chip/flake. I've found cooking small parts in the oven at 'keep warm' temp helps a bunch to nicely harden the paint cure. Then, if it's a screw, nut or bolt that requires insertion with a tool, be REAL gentle and perhaps introduce a cloth/paper layer between the tool and the part so you don't distrub/crack the paint surface when to torque to spec.

[Jack H.]

Re: black phosphate

Call around Bs As and find a gunsmith. Translate the English for 'gun blue' literally and explain you don't have la idioma. Bet you he understands immediately!

Guns and rifles have a sleek black finish on steel barrels/body. This finish wears off with use/abuse. When a pro cleans a shotgun or pistol, it's common to take a cloth soak it in 'gun blue' and wipe down the exterior surfaces to restore smooth/uniform black finish, then apply oil over the bluing to protect.

Unfortunately for those highly visible items on your Corvette that were black phosphate (screws in door sill plate, on wiper door, on rear air extractor grilles) gun blue isn't a real good answer. These parts are exposed to wind, weather and touch/abrasion. Gun blue is a temporary surface agent that easily rubs off needed constant re-application.

As Fred Oliva says, it's cheap and readily available here (we DID have trouble translating English/English in England on this....) and a final surface coat of oil or silicon lube works fine for the trailer queen that doesn't see much use/abuse.

In a daily driver application, you'll be pretty much in a constant maintenance mode. The paint Rolf mentioned (think it IS in the Paragon catalog & might be in C-Central as well) is better. You have to get the part really clean (blast cabinet or HEALTHY work against a wire wheel) for the paint to adhere uniformly and not chip/flake. I've found cooking small parts in the oven at 'keep warm' temp helps a bunch to nicely harden the paint cure. Then, if it's a screw, nut or bolt that requires insertion with a tool, be REAL gentle and perhaps introduce a cloth/paper layer between the tool and the part so you don't distrub/crack the paint surface when to torque to spec.

[Patrick H.]

Re: black phosphate or black OXIDE?

Gentlemen,

Before we get Tony too confused, let us remember that there were two distictly different black finishes, black PHOSPHATE and black OXIDE.

The Eastwood kit, part 10113Z Metal Blackening system distinctly says "you can get the black OXIDE OEM finish at home."

Per my understanding and observations, black oxide is a semi-flat finish, very similar to gun blueing as noted below, used on many fasteners as inexpensive rust protection. Black phosphate, on the other hand, is a semi-flat (to semi-gloss on occasion) finish with an almost metallic quality (if you squint) used on hinges, female hood latches, seat rails, etc. Occasionally it even looks like really dark gray.

OEM paints sells a variety of each, with the black phosphate being SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

For cheap black oxide, I have found that after cleaning a part, find some flat black EPOXY paint at your hardware store in an aerosol can; I have used some from Krylon and from Red Devil. I have found it to be a much more accurate, and more durable, finish than the black oxide paint from OEM. It also dries in a flash.

Hope this helps avoid any further confusion before Tony gets the wrong color on the wrong parts.

Patrick

[Patrick H.]

Re: black phosphate or black OXIDE?

Gentlemen,

Before we get Tony too confused, let us remember that there were two distictly different black finishes, black PHOSPHATE and black OXIDE.

The Eastwood kit, part 10113Z Metal Blackening system distinctly says "you can get the black OXIDE OEM finish at home."

Per my understanding and observations, black oxide is a semi-flat finish, very similar to gun blueing as noted below, used on many fasteners as inexpensive rust protection. Black phosphate, on the other hand, is a semi-flat (to semi-gloss on occasion) finish with an almost metallic quality (if you squint) used on hinges, female hood latches, seat rails, etc. Occasionally it even looks like really dark gray.

OEM paints sells a variety of each, with the black phosphate being SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

For cheap black oxide, I have found that after cleaning a part, find some flat black EPOXY paint at your hardware store in an aerosol can; I have used some from Krylon and from Red Devil. I have found it to be a much more accurate, and more durable, finish than the black oxide paint from OEM. It also dries in a flash.

Hope this helps avoid any further confusion before Tony gets the wrong color on the wrong parts.

Patrick

[Joe L.]

Re: black phosphate or black OXIDE?

Patrick----

Your assessment of the differences and distinction between black OXIDE and black PHOSPHATE is exactly correct.

[Joe L.]

Re: black phosphate or black OXIDE?

Patrick----

Your assessment of the differences and distinction between black OXIDE and black PHOSPHATE is exactly correct.

[Dennis M.]

Re: black phosphate or black OXIDE?

BLACK OXIDE KIT: Ther is another source, please refer to caswellplating.com website. They have a black oxide kit as well as other plating kits, which could serve your needs. I have used the black oxide kit and it is simple cold dipping process. Takes less than 30 minutes to complete. One kit will usually complete one car. It best to do as many pieces as possible each time. I used the kit in 4 separate mixes. The one item is mixed with water, I used 1/4 of the bottle to 1/4 the quantity of water required. This will work to break out your plating into segments allowing you to stage your process. Good Luck

[Dennis M.]

Re: black phosphate or black OXIDE?

BLACK OXIDE KIT: Ther is another source, please refer to caswellplating.com website. They have a black oxide kit as well as other plating kits, which could serve your needs. I have used the black oxide kit and it is simple cold dipping process. Takes less than 30 minutes to complete. One kit will usually complete one car. It best to do as many pieces as possible each time. I used the kit in 4 separate mixes. The one item is mixed with water, I used 1/4 of the bottle to 1/4 the quantity of water required. This will work to break out your plating into segments allowing you to stage your process. Good Luck