engine code problem?

[roland verrico]

My 1965 is a convertable with a powerglide,Fac. A/C, power windows and steering. The vin# is 194675S120992. MY front pad code ( pasenger side front) F0712HC I think it may be HO or HQ. next ot that in smaller numbers is 120992. The block code( rear driver side next ot bell housing) 3782870. The other date code rear of engine passenger side is G85. Exaust man. left,3846559. intake man. 384457. Could this be a june car that was taken off the line for an engine problem and finished mid july. By the way this is a base engine 250HP.Thanks for any replys.

[Gene M.]

Re: engine code problem?

As the demand lessened for base engines in 65 they sat around longer. I think you will find the 300 horse and more potent engines greatly out number the little 250 horse. My early 65 250 horse around 4K serial number, has an engine that is about a month earlier build than the car. This is not uncommon for less quantity build options.

[Chuck S.]

Re: engine code problem?

Gene, this situation appears to be the reverse. The car serial number indicates a June car, but the engine is stamped July 12...exactly the kind of situation that would get you in judging trouble unless you can prove the engine is original. But, it doesn't make much sense to fake a base engine. Also, the block casting date is July 8; that is really a short lead from casting to pad stamping (July 12). They must have run totally out of base engines.

BTW, Roland, NCRS Spec Guide says a 65 base engine with PG and C60 is "HQ". Base engine with PG, but no AC, is "HO".

[Eugene B.]

Re: engine code problem?

Roland,
If all of your numbers are correct, it may generate some confussion if the car is ever judged. According to the birthday calculator, the vehicle assembly date is June 28, 1965 and the engine pad date is July 12.

Per the 1965 TIM & JG (page 75), "... the pad assembly stamping must PRECEDE the approximate vehicle assembly date, but not by more than six months."

You can see the confussion: In the case of your car, the engine date is approximately two weeks AFTER the vehicle assembly date.

By the way, the HQ means 327 Base 250 Powerglide Air Cond.

As another data point, my '65 250 has an engine date of Feb. 22 and a vehicle assy. date of approx. March 3 or 4.

Regards,
Gene

[Tom Freeman]

Re: engine code problem?

So could the car have been built, had a major engine problem, get pulled off the line, sit to the side for a couple of weeks, and then have another engine installed?

Any possibility of something like this happening?

tom...

[Mike Cobine]

Re: engine code problem - maybe factory repair?

I remember in the St. Louis plant tours of finding Corvettes being repaired. Sometimes they didn't run or they broke as they went off the line or when loading on the trailers for delivery. I remember seeing Corvettes with engines out or engines apart.

The shop guys leading the tours said that they were rebuilt there and then the car sent out when done. The only thing I remember for sure was that they said they tried to rebuild the engine in the car (which makes sense, it is stamped to the car) and if they couldn't within a reasonable time then they replaced the engine and the original engine was sent back to the engine area to be reassembled as another engine.

No doubt these also have the ground out VINs and restamped. They were not clear if this meant sending them back to Flint (doubtful) or to the in-house engine building area (probable).

Now at the time, they were simply building cars and I was far too young to think in terms of restoration, so I don't remember any mention of how long the car would wait before they went to a different engine, how they handled partial VINs, or anything that we normally accept as "restoration rules" today.

I would think it is possible if the history of the car is known that the engine hasn't been replaced, then the car could have sat in the plant and have gotten an engine newer than the car by the time it got out. Rare, but possible.

It is only 9 business days as there is a holiday in there.

Maybe the guys on here who actually worked the lines could expound on how much time could occur, what the procedures were, and anything else that would apply.

[roland verrico]

Re: engine code problem - maybe factory repair?

Thanks for all the replies, keep them coming. My thought is if somebody replaced the original engine and restamped the block why make it 2 weeks after the build date. Roland.

[Loren L.]

Extremely doubtful that the car would

sit in the "heavy repair" area for 3 weeks. It may be time to start the hunt for previous owners....

[Chuck G.]

Re: engine code problem?

I mentioned this to you on another BB, but I do believe that your VIN derivitive stamped on the pad should be "5120992", and NOT just 120992. The 5 designates the year, 1965. Chuck

[Eugene B.]

Re: engine code problem?

Roland & Chuck,
I was just getting ready to ask Roland this question. In the original post, you document the engine number 120992. Chuck is correct that there should be a 5 in front of this set of numbers. I'm not sure what we will conclude when we know the answer, but it's another piece of the puzzle.

Regards,
Gene

[Michael W.]

Being that:

1) the block casting date is AFTER the car was built
2) the engine code is incorrect
3) the VIN stamping is incorrect

I'm willing to take odds that maybe this might not be the original engine for this car. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Ray C.]

Re: engine code problem?

Hi! Rolland

Could you please provide the casting date on the intake manifold? I have been doing some research on the 65 intake manifold and I have not seen a 3844457 intake with 65 0r 5 for Flint casting date code year. The 65 JG calls for the 3844457 intake, all members that have replied to my base 250HP 1965 manifold survey have the 3866922 manifold.

I have a 1965 250HP base engine car that has a body build date of April 12, 65 and the engine pad is: 5114957 F0405HE

Question to the members: Could someone please explain the stamping process in reference to the transmission stamp and engine block stamp? I am fairly new to this process, but it is my understanding that the same stamp was used. Am I working with false information?

Thanks!!

Ray

[Eugene B.]

Re: Being that:

Mike,
I don't see the evidence yet, that the engine code is incorrect. I also don't think the we have determined that the VIN stamping is incorrect. It looks to me like only item 1) is in question.

Regards,
Gene

[Eugene B.]

Re: Intake manifold casting number

Ray,
For your research project, my 1965, 250 HP has intake casting number 3866922.

Regards,
Gene

[Ray C.]

Re: Intake manifold casting number

Hi!Gene,
Thanks!!

Ray