C3-Surivor car? or total restoration Question?

[Larry Clain]

I have had some inpuit from some of you in a previous post and now that I finally have a web page that I can now show you, the Baldwin Motion Phase III car's and the history behind them.I would like to pose the question again.

I feel that a total restoration is not called for as the cars are mostly all there and only need some parts that have gone bad sitting around and/or repair minor wreck damage. The White '70 car has only 15,223 miles on it. A new set of hooker sidepipes, overhaul the motor and go through the rest of the drivetrain (new seals and what ever is needed) New brakes, repair the damage that was previous to the left front fender and strip it and repaint it and let the world see it again. Inside is is just like a new car. In fact you can still smell the leather when you open the door. I will need a new radiator fan shroud, as the flex fan that came on it threw a blade through it and then lodged half way through the hood when I did a burnout showing off with it one night.

The '69 is a special car and has very low mileage on it too. not as low as the other car but it has only 44,000 on it. I will need to repair the rear damage for which I already have the parts. I will need to get a set of the correct seats for the car. The sidecovers on the exaust will have to be replated or replaced. New headers as they usually rust into nothing. Of course brakes. They all need them. The motor is good and all I think I should do is just go through it and put new rings and gaskets, seals and such. I will also go through the rest of the drivetrain. I could get by with the carpets as is but they should be replaced. one door panel is bad (split at the top) It just doesn't need any major parts to finish it.

To me, it just doesn't make sense to take it completeley apart with such low mileage on it. It doesn't need that many parts to make it whole again.
It was not abused or trashed out and has been in storage for a long time. I would not be suprised if it would not start up with a little carb work and a new battery. It was running good when I parked it.

The most I may do to it is pull the body off to paint it and freshen up the chassis, since it came from North country for a few years before I got it. It will depend on how rusty it is. haven't had a chance to get under it with the time to determine if it needs it or not.

I have been too busy this time of year you know? I am retiring soon to devote time to this project and try to get them both done.

Sorry to beat a dead horse again but I am still torn between which way to go.

Thanks in advance everybody

Click on the link to access the '69 Baldwin Motion Phase III SS427 GT page.




Baldwin Motion PhaseIII Corvette webpage.

[Tom R.]

Re: C3-Surivor car? or total restoration Question?

Neat history! I can see why you wish to preserve these cars and it sounds like you have more emotion invested than dollars. I would think you've got to go by the numbers...cost versus market value. What's it going to cost to get it where you want it versus its market value at that point.

And then how does that fit into your plan for the car. You mention "C3 survivor car" but by whose standards? NCRS? Bloomington? From what you describe the 69 has had sufficient changes it may no longer qualify for the NCRS Bowtie and with 44,000 miles by Bowtie standards is a lot of miles. So the reality is that it is at best borderline for NCRS Bowtie and that leaves you with Bloomington Survivor which I can't speak to.

[Bob D.]

Re: C3-Surivor car? or total restoration Question?

Why not bring one of them down to Waco for the Regional at the end of October? You could enter it as a Sportsman or for flight judging and let some knowledgeable people look at it. The web site is www.ncrstexas.org.

[Mike Cobine]

Re: C3-Surivor car? or total restoration Question?

Larry,

I think everyone has been over this point before. Basically, you have a historically significant car, being the first Baldwin Motion GT. As such, returning to how it left the factory makes as much sense as returning the Grand Sport roadsters or the '67 LeMans racer to how they originally left the factory.

As such, an NCRS or even Bloomington Gold by-the-book restoration and any discussion of such are pointless. Using the methods isn't, just the rules.

To restore it the way Motion built it is the only way to go, and how in depth you get at rebuilding depends on two factors:

- how much do you want to spend
- how much originality do you wish to retain.

Obviously, the more you take apart, rebuild, recreate, or replace, the more it will all cost. Since it is so low on mileage, most items should be perfectly acceptable as they are, with only cleaning and refreshing.

If the frame is headed towards rust, then lifting the body to redo the frame is worthwhile, because you can then get to all rust that needs to be removed or repaired. This can extend the life of your frame for a long time. It takes longer than not lifting the body but only because you now do more work on the frame. However, the work goes much faster and is much more thorough. It gives you a change to redo all items that wear out in normal use.

On the originality, the more you replace, the less original it is. So cleaning or restoring a part is much better than replacing if you want to keep it original.

What you have outlined above makes sense and keeps it as much original as possible while minimizing the costs and time involved.

I am intrigued with your comments on the Hooker side exhaust. They look like normal Corvette side pipe covers. I wouldn’t think they would go over the normal Hooker 4 into 1 sidepipes that are so common due to the side pipe large 4 inch diameter and the distance they normally extend out from the body. Are they normal Hooker side exhaust or were they headers made to bolt or weld to Corvette sidepipes? Or are they some special Hooker side pipe?

[Larry Clain]

Re: Correction to my question

Mike you seem to have the words and thoughts that I am wanting to convey.

I know that these two cars are not true NCRS Bloomington Gold "by-the-book" restoration worthy cars. I meant to say that they will be taken back to as delivered from Motion. I do want to use NCRS quality of work and some of your standards, but not take them back to as new from the factory. I want them to be as delivered from Motion.

In reference to the headers, I should have been more specific as both cars have headers. The hookers will go on the '70 White car. the '69 has ???? tube headers running into factory sidepipes with stock '69 covers. I do need new covers as the chrome has bubbled on them.

There are serious collectors in the Muscle car world and just because I love these cars and I also realize that they will outlive me. I want to see that they survive because even though they are not a "Grandsport" nonetheless they are a part of Corvettte history. Motion only made 10 of these cars and until I showed up at the Super Car Renunion at St Louis Labor day weekend only 3 were known to exist. These guys are just as particular as any NCRS judge.

I am not ready to show them till I get most of the work done and they are looking like new ones again. I about lost everything when I went through the hard finiancial times back in the late '80's and then a divorce in '93. I had to chose to just store them for a day when I could get back to them and that day has come.

I have had lots of requests for pictures of the cars and this was also a way to let those that are interested to see just what I have.

Thanks for the time you took to answer - all of you. Hope you enjoy the pic.s

There will come a day, that I will want to do a full NCRS on my '65 365 hp conv. S/N 00011 car. It is also sitting in storage with about 60k on it. It was yellow and was re-painted blue with hooker side pipes which years ago, I swaped out with a car I had on my Used Car Lot that had factory sidepipes. I love the pipes and I know that I have to remove them to take it back to original. But I promice that I will do a full frame off on it to NCRS standars. From what Bill Mock, tells me, it may be the first Disk Brake car actually delivered with them and that could be important to Corvette History.

As you can see I have a problem with falling in LOVE with my cars. Hope you can understand why?