I am in the restoration process of a 73 conv. I am struggling with the issue of how to have the frame prepared, blasting or chemical bath. Is the chemical method worth the money? I have heard that paint adhesion problems have occured with chemical baths. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks, Bill wjtarka@ieee.com
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Re: frame resto
I battled with the choice also. I restored a 68 Camaro a few years back and had the frame chemically dipped. It came out beautiful. The only problem was I struggled with paint sticking. I did everything they told me to make the paint stick. I ended up dabbing Rustolem from a quart on the frame. Needless to say the finish was not what I wanted. I have put in a few hundred hours on my frame for my 67. I had it sand balsted this time. I took it to a local place that did industrial blasting for train cars and wheels. They kept the pressure down and the frame looked great. The serial number was not even effected. I asked them to spray in the frame as many hole as possible. When I got the frame back I used high pressure air to blow out the loose rust from the inside. I also tapped the side with a rubber malet to loosen any other rust. I coated the outside of frame then with PPG DP-90 two part expoxy primer. From there I sprayed a Primer/ Surfacer to fill in minor imperfections in a few areas then recoated the frame in DP- 90 -- results and color are great. I am not concerned with the inside of the frame because I will have limited use and climate controlled storage.Keith Burmeister -
Re: frame resto
I battled with the choice also. I restored a 68 Camaro a few years back and had the frame chemically dipped. It came out beautiful. The only problem was I struggled with paint sticking. I did everything they told me to make the paint stick. I ended up dabbing Rustolem from a quart on the frame. Needless to say the finish was not what I wanted. I have put in a few hundred hours on my frame for my 67. I had it sand balsted this time. I took it to a local place that did industrial blasting for train cars and wheels. They kept the pressure down and the frame looked great. The serial number was not even effected. I asked them to spray in the frame as many hole as possible. When I got the frame back I used high pressure air to blow out the loose rust from the inside. I also tapped the side with a rubber malet to loosen any other rust. I coated the outside of frame then with PPG DP-90 two part expoxy primer. From there I sprayed a Primer/ Surfacer to fill in minor imperfections in a few areas then recoated the frame in DP- 90 -- results and color are great. I am not concerned with the inside of the frame because I will have limited use and climate controlled storage.Keith BurmeisterComment
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Re: frame resto
Think you'll get a spectrum of advice here based on personal experience. In addition to 'sand blasting' there are various 'exotic' medias (walnut shells, garnet, Etc.) that can be used to 'fine tune' the depth of surface invasion. Choice really boils down to the specifics of what you've got to start with.
Cars that saw typical mid-West or oceanside salt corrosion are more 'challenging'. You want to get all the surface damage out without eating too much metal away and preserve factory original marks at the same time. Objectives are often at odds with each other....
In addition to good advice given on using an epoxy based paint to fill pock marks that'll result, an alternative to consider is having the frame surface filled by leading. Used to be a very common process for durable fill of steel surface irregularities and some say frame leading is a piece of cake because surfaces are pretty much flat to start with (no exotic curvilinear shapes to hand tweak).
Keep asking before you commit. Hopefully, more will contribute to this thread to give you alternatives to weigh. Last, once you dig in and begin the resto of the frame, there's no going back to true factory original and you shut doors on avenues of non-restored recognition categories (NCRS Bowtie/NCCB Survivor) so I'm hoping you've weighed this consequence and have good reason to wade in and restore the frame....Comment
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Re: frame resto
Think you'll get a spectrum of advice here based on personal experience. In addition to 'sand blasting' there are various 'exotic' medias (walnut shells, garnet, Etc.) that can be used to 'fine tune' the depth of surface invasion. Choice really boils down to the specifics of what you've got to start with.
Cars that saw typical mid-West or oceanside salt corrosion are more 'challenging'. You want to get all the surface damage out without eating too much metal away and preserve factory original marks at the same time. Objectives are often at odds with each other....
In addition to good advice given on using an epoxy based paint to fill pock marks that'll result, an alternative to consider is having the frame surface filled by leading. Used to be a very common process for durable fill of steel surface irregularities and some say frame leading is a piece of cake because surfaces are pretty much flat to start with (no exotic curvilinear shapes to hand tweak).
Keep asking before you commit. Hopefully, more will contribute to this thread to give you alternatives to weigh. Last, once you dig in and begin the resto of the frame, there's no going back to true factory original and you shut doors on avenues of non-restored recognition categories (NCRS Bowtie/NCCB Survivor) so I'm hoping you've weighed this consequence and have good reason to wade in and restore the frame....Comment
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Re: frame resto
Based on my experience, I recommend you do both... have the frame dipped to remove all rust, inside & outside, then have it lightly sandblasted to enhance paint adhesion, and above all, prep, prep, prep.
I had mine dipped, then I prepped it (perhaps not enough, I was anxious to get rust protection on it), painted it with primer and flattened Imron, then sprayed undercoating inside to protect the inside. However, the exterior paint just didn't turn out well, looking blotchy in some areas and showing signs of poor paint adhesion. I was never sure WHY I had the paint problem, it could have been metal prep, or perhaps I didn't mix some of the paint thoroughly enough, or the paint store took liberties with DuPont's paint formula ingredients, etc, etc.
I let it sit a long time, then bit the bullet and spent copious amounts of time grinding all the paint off and cleaning/prepping the bare metal, then resprayed with (fresh, but the same) flattened Imron formula (telling the paint store absolutely no substituting any ingredients). It came out great! If I had it to do over, I'd sandblast it lightly after the dipping, then do a meticulous job prepping for paint.... which is what I'm recommending you do. If you'd like info on the materials I used, e-mail me and I'll look it up.Comment
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Re: frame resto
Based on my experience, I recommend you do both... have the frame dipped to remove all rust, inside & outside, then have it lightly sandblasted to enhance paint adhesion, and above all, prep, prep, prep.
I had mine dipped, then I prepped it (perhaps not enough, I was anxious to get rust protection on it), painted it with primer and flattened Imron, then sprayed undercoating inside to protect the inside. However, the exterior paint just didn't turn out well, looking blotchy in some areas and showing signs of poor paint adhesion. I was never sure WHY I had the paint problem, it could have been metal prep, or perhaps I didn't mix some of the paint thoroughly enough, or the paint store took liberties with DuPont's paint formula ingredients, etc, etc.
I let it sit a long time, then bit the bullet and spent copious amounts of time grinding all the paint off and cleaning/prepping the bare metal, then resprayed with (fresh, but the same) flattened Imron formula (telling the paint store absolutely no substituting any ingredients). It came out great! If I had it to do over, I'd sandblast it lightly after the dipping, then do a meticulous job prepping for paint.... which is what I'm recommending you do. If you'd like info on the materials I used, e-mail me and I'll look it up.Comment
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Re: frame resto
When I did the frame on my '58 I sandblasted it myself, with a small hobby pressure unit and a sears 5 hp compressor. It came out great, granted it was in decent shape to begin with, but the point I'm trying to make here is you can get professional results without chemicals and their associated problems. You also get the added bonus of the satisfaction of doing it yourself!
Best regards. MarkComment
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Re: frame resto
When I did the frame on my '58 I sandblasted it myself, with a small hobby pressure unit and a sears 5 hp compressor. It came out great, granted it was in decent shape to begin with, but the point I'm trying to make here is you can get professional results without chemicals and their associated problems. You also get the added bonus of the satisfaction of doing it yourself!
Best regards. MarkComment
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Re: frame resto
Bill, I restored the frame from my '65 eleven years ago using Ready Strip. Still looks like new today. You may have some trouble locating a facility near you. Check Hemmings Motor News, they advertize regularly there. As for problems with paint adheasion, I had none. Frame was spotless inside and out. I painted with GM simi flat, don't have the part number with me, but can get it if you want it. I taped all holes, then dumped paint into frame and flipped frame over. Low tech, but worked like a champ! Outside of frame was sprayed using paint gun. My area of the country (southwest) is great for preserving plating and paint of the type I used, depending on where you live, you may or may not need a more hi-tech approch. BillComment
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Re: frame resto
Bill, I restored the frame from my '65 eleven years ago using Ready Strip. Still looks like new today. You may have some trouble locating a facility near you. Check Hemmings Motor News, they advertize regularly there. As for problems with paint adheasion, I had none. Frame was spotless inside and out. I painted with GM simi flat, don't have the part number with me, but can get it if you want it. I taped all holes, then dumped paint into frame and flipped frame over. Low tech, but worked like a champ! Outside of frame was sprayed using paint gun. My area of the country (southwest) is great for preserving plating and paint of the type I used, depending on where you live, you may or may not need a more hi-tech approch. BillComment
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