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Re: Date Stamping and other Restoration Basics
Tracy, no one else has responded to your post, but I don't think its because the topic is taboo. I have a little time this evening.
Most of us here are familiar with some instance of Corvette dishonesty, and acknowledge it as a fact of life. If we trade in rare Corvettes (I don't), we had better be prepared to separate an occasional goat from the sheep. If we don't have enough knowledge to make that judgement, we better know when to get well-informed help.
The simple answer to your straight forward and simple question: No. No single "published" source exists that has all the date code/stamp attributes needed to counterfeit any Corvette from 53 to whenever the last "Corvette" was built (some say 62, some say 67, some say 72, some say...).
The reasons for this are slightly more complicated, but probably include: (1) such information is freely available if you know the right person to ask and your reasons are legitimate, or (2) the topic is too broad requiring volumes for all Corvette models, and/or (3) original Corvettes are not so rare that the potential counterfeiter couldn't just find an original car at a Corvette event and observe/measure the attribute with the permission of the owner. This doesn't mean that the dumbest Corvette crooks are smart enough to simply take a good look; there have been some really BAD attempts at counterfeiting.
The more subtle trickery is not derived from the KNOWLEDGE of the information, but the odiously brilliant techniques for utilizing this information; consider the forming of bogus engine block casting dates/numbers using epoxy...now we're talking graduate level thievery. It was discovered/reported on this board. So, you can see that access to the information is not as tough a problem as the ingenious ways the dishonesty is perpetrated. At this level of professional avarice, it's like the internet viruses...you just have to keep sharing and updating your info with the good guys if you are buying big buck Corvettes.
More specific ramblings about your harmonic balancer: When you study the casting dates on original engines, you will find that the dates are usually tightly grouped; on my engine, casting dates are within one month to one week, sometimes even days, before the date stamped on the pad. There may be exceptions to this statement, and I believe any date up to a year will pass judging muster. More than six months before assembly date stamp, I would be skeptical, but keep gathering information with an open mind knowing that factory stuff happened. You should be able to use these guidelines to find a balancer that will work. Keep in mind that knowing the proper date range is one thing, but finding the correct part with the proper date range won't always be an easy task (See Dave Suesz post re his 55 engine block).
That other stuff about location, orientation, right side up, I haven't a clue (63s not my bag, this is pretty obscure info even for 63 judges IMO). But, rest assured that when you find the right part number balancer, with the proper date range, it will be in the configuration you need...there is not enough profit in counterfeiting harmonic balancers with epoxy date codes.
Now for the $64 question...Are date codes on harmonic balancers even checked, or can they be checked, in flight judging? Anyway, even if they aren't, I completely understand your desire to find the proper casting date for the balancer. -
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Re: Wow...The sound of crickets was hurting my ear
Actually, achieving Top Flite for most restored Corvettes WILL NOT be as difficult as requiring ANY restamps, but all complete restorations will cost plenty in time, money, and work. You probably already realize the time, money, work part, but as you use the manuals to make a complete assessment of your car, it will help you to understand how much further to Top Flite.
As you have determined, this intense focus on restamps deals primarily with the engine block , and to a lesser degree on the transmission. The reason is that these are VIN stamped components and there can only be ONE original. If the car doesn't have one of these, particularly the engine, then it's the "Kiss of Death" for a relatively easy, inexpensive Top Flite. In that case, you are faced with the expense of finding a "correct" engine, and you can't afford to lose ANY judging points that you might otherwise let slide to save a few hundred bucks. Alternatively, you can rationalize a restamp as a "pad restoration" and set out WITH MONEY to find someone that knows what they are doing. Unfortunately, the attention given to engine restamps is less about getting a Top Flite than the money that can be made by bending ethics.
You also HOPE that the car has it's original differential (check the date and the ratio). The diff is NOT VIN stamped, and finding out the original has been replaced by a wrong dated diff with a wierd ratio is a problem that can be overcome with no compromise to your ethics...only money is required. For judging purposes, it is unlikely that the differential numbers will be checked; a way-incorrect ratio may become obvious to the judges if the car is being driven, as in a PV.
There is one other VIN stamped component...the frame. You would really like the car to have the original frame for originality purposes, but from the judging standpoint, it's immaterial...the VIN stamps on the frame are not judged because they are impossible to see on the judging field. If the judges are sharp enough to realize that your replacement frame is an incorrect configuration for your year Corvette, then you will see a deduction.
Most of these old cars have lost some of their smaller original parts along the way; the components to check first are the high maintenance items like the carburetor, the alternator, the master cylinder, the coil, and maybe, but not likely, the starter. Over the years, these are likely to have been replaced with functional rebuilts/replacements from Pep Boys or Mr. Goodwrench. The ignition coils are not dated, but they are judged for original type (three embossed digits) and configuration. One part that is sure to be gone is the waterpump. Power brake boosters are also dated, but on C3s, the date is difficult to see for judging.
If these original parts are gone, they can be replaced using the exact same method you are using for your harmonic balancer...get the correct parts with proper casting/assembly, and NO ONE will be able to say if they are not the originals. In the case of the waterpump, the casting date can be matched to the engine for originality, but for judging, it is not required because the waterpump date is not visible enough to judge. The important thing with waterpumps is to be sure you have the right configuration for your engine vintage. SEE...NO RESTAMPS NECESSARY!
But, as I said before, finding the right used part with the proper date may not be easy, quick or cheap. Here's a hint: In my opinion, you are more likely to find a better selection of used parts cheaper at Carlisle than on ebay; the bad news is it only comes around every August. The fringe benefits of shopping the junk piles at Carlisle is that you will receive an education on all manner of parts, casting/assembly date configurations, and you will REALLY sleep well that night. Be sure to do your homework and know what you want; you don't want to pay the freight from PA just to find out that greasy junk is not quite right for your car.
Thanks for the image of Daddy's darling standing in the back seat of a 64 Impala, golden curls blowing in the breeze, pointing out the Corvettes...took me back to a kinder, gentler time. If they built that flashback into a Chevy ad, I guarantee it would sell some of that soul-less iron (or is it plastic?) they have today. If you have had your car for 15 years, you probably knew some or a lot of the above; I apologize for repeating stuff you already knew. Good luck with your 'Vette and Top Flite.Comment
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That is the sound of conscience
Tracy, what you hear is the sound of conscience. Years ago, those with the original engines got more points in judging, and still do. It seemed reasonable. And the Top Flight and Bloomington Gold cars began to sell for higher prices than those that were not judged so high.
As the dollars went up, original became equated to more dollars and so you see that it became a natural thing for people to want original cars. It wasn't just the case of getting more judging points because getting more points equaled higher selling price. It was now an investment and investment is business. The "hobby" left to become a business and businesses are dictated by dollar signs.
And so for years, there has been a whole industry that creates original blocks for those unlucky enough to not have an original block.
And luck it is. By sheer luck and good fortune, some people have their original engine while others don't. A friend, a non-typical car person, bought a '76 new because he liked the looks. He was hardly a fast or hard driver. In the first 1000 miles, he had zero oil pressure twice and had the car towed to the dealer to be repaired. What had happened was the wire to the oil pressure sending unit had come off and it was just the gauge showing zero.
About 1200 miles, it happened again on a Friday. The dealer was fed up with towing charges and "knew" it was the wire, so they told him to just drive it in Monday and they'd put the wire back on.
He had it towed in Monday. Why? Because No. 6 rod decided that weekend it didn't like being where some assembler put it. And in 1200 miles from new, he lost his original block. He was unlucky, just like thousands of other Corvette owners over the years.
Of course, today, if he still had that car, he could get an original short block, all stamped and dated just like his first original engine, for about $2500. Naturally, this makes the road to Top Flight a bit easier, and emphasizes that dollars speak louder than work.
In some mid years, this difference in having an original engine over a non-original engine could be $20,000 and higher in selling price of the car. Suddenly $2500 or even double is a worthwhile investment. Where else can you invest $5000 and get $20,000 to $30,000 in a month?
The easy solution would be to kill the extra points for having an original engine over simply a correct engine. It would take a couple of years for the public to respond, but eventually, the profit of restamping would go away. And so would the need for fake engine stampings. People would pay according to the quality of the car, not because of 15 or so characters stamped in a block.
A small problem arose in that the VIN and stampings were the only way to indicate an "original" engine over simply a replacement or correct engine. With restamping, that is gone. And that became a moral or ethical issue as that stamp says "this is the original" when in fact, it isn't anymore.
NCRS has first said restamps were bad, then admitted they occurred and often couldn't be detected, and finally called them "restoration stamp pads" to ease the conscience of letting the genie out of the bottle.
But the genie is out, the cookie jar is broken, and everyone either stands around looking at the ground silently when restamping is brought up, hoping no one will look at them, or they immediately begin pointing fingers.
For this reason, I would never pay a premium for an original engine over a correct engine because this whole mess has gone on so long, there is almost no way to tell original from fake anymore. And if it is ever determined your "original" is not, then whatever money you have tied up in the car is gone forever.
That is why it is so silent on your question.
Privately, some will tell you where to get restamping done. Publicly, no one will.
Good luck on your project. I, too, remember when Corvettes were simply bigger than life cars, not VINs stamped the right way. I remember being very happy with a 283 and wrong seats and wrong dash but it didn't matter because it was a CORVETTE. Don't get so off-track you forget standing in the seat dreaming of Corvettes.Comment
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