Evans Cooling Systems

[Philip Whitaker Member# 2024]

Has anyone used this product? I'm considering it for my C-2. It sounds like it would resolve a lot of cooling system issues. I would like to know if it works in "real world" applications. Evans Cooling makes a lot of claims, but I would like to hear an unbias testimonial from some one who has used the product.

Thanks, Phil

http://www.evanscooling.com

[John H.]

Snake Oil *NM*

[Doug Flaten]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

This will not resolve your cooling system issues, it will run hotter. Using 100% concentration of propylene or ethylene glycol will decrease the heat transfer capacity of the fluid. Heat transfer improves as your water fraction is increased. However, a larger water fraction decreases the boiling point of the fluid. Glycols are added to raise the boiling point at the expense of heat transfer. It is a compromise and that is why the typical recommendation is aa 50/50 mixture. If this fixed all cooling issues, wouldn't the OEM put it in in the first place. I copied a couple of "benefits" from their site that should throw up a red flag.

"Although using higher coolant temperatures can introduce other problems, (i.e.: increased oil temperatures) the NPG will allow the possibility of increasing coolant temperatures with all the resultant performance improvements as those problems are addressed and resolved. EGW is temperature constrained only by the physics of the liquid... "Faster combustion chamber metal surface warm-up,"

These two quotes tell you that temperature is going to increase. The so-called performance increases are due to higher compression and operating temperatures achievable if you re-engineer the coolant system.

[Philip Whitaker Member# 2024]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

Doug,

Thanks for your response. I read the product information with out picking up on the fact that the coolant temperatures would rise. I'll steer clear of this product. I have A/C and don't need any additional heat in the system.

Thanks again. Phil

[Rick Kammer]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

Philip, to be upfront with you, please note that I work for this Evans Cooling company.

Here are some thoughts for you with regards to the usage of our coolant in your vehicle.

Water has the best heat transfer capability of any liguid on earth, but it also has some limitations.
It has a low boiling point (212 degrees)(around 225 degress pressurized in an automotive engine), so depending on the situation, it can go realize a phase change to a vaport state causing a very fast increase of metal temerature, i.e. the classical boil-over. The reality here indicates that there are only about 20 degrees between an engine running with "as designed" thermal management levels (normally between 195 and 205 degress F) and those temperature levels which cause over heating or, at least, some decrease in the effect of the cooling system.

Also water is very corrosive and picks up the heavy metals of the engine rendering it toxic.

In a short aside note that ethylene glycol was added to water to enhance the performance of automotive coolants in the area of COLD weather (freeze protection) operation.

With Evans's NPG+ coolant the diferential between normal operating temperatures (coolant) and over heating becomes significantly extended as propylene glycols boiling point is 370 degrees F. This extended range provides added protenction for the user, because as the coolant temperature rises, the coolant stays in its liquid state continuing to pull heat from the metals. Note that vapor reverses this action by actually insullating the metal surfaces and keeping the heat in the metal.

And Yes, the usage of NPG+ does bring higher coolant operating temperatures, but for many applications running warmer actually helps engine performance (i.e. combustion chamber efficiency). Note that Brett Hearn runs his national champion dirt track racer at coolant temperatures over 280 degrees with fewer pit stops, no engine damage, and he wins.

If coolant temperature becomes an issue, i.e. drives the oil temps too high, improved flow rates will bring these temps down, pulling the "stat" often does this quite well. Add and oil cooler or go to a synthetic oil which facilitates high temp operation. In any case, cooling flexibility and the ability to run "solid" at higher coolant temperatures is what can be expected with a non-water based coolant.

And remember, this has nothing to do with "snake oil." It's known physics and solid engineering application. If you have any more questions, please call our tech line and speak to David. He's a pro.

[Philip Whitaker Member# 2024]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

Rick,

Thanks for responding. I had called Evan's tech support last Friday, but they were closed. After reading your response, I called again and spoke with David. He was very knowledgeable and pleasant to talk to. I didn't have an over heating issue before I pulled the engine and had it rebuilt. Not even when running the A/C. And that was with the original radiator, which I will re-install in the car. A friend thought that I should try the Evans to help ward off the issue of possible leaks caused by running 13# of pressure. I'll probably go back to the 50/50 mix using Dex for now. I haven't fired the engine yet. If I do have issues with the cooling system after I get the car running, I may give the Evans a try. I'm just paranoid after following all of the posts on this board on the subject of over heating.

Thanks again, Phil

[Rick Kammer]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

Phil, 13 psi should not be an issue for you, indeed, if you don't push the horse power (thereby increasing the heat rejection), you should be fine with the stock cooling system.

Note that long life,organic coolants are experiencing some problems (including industry law suits) over additive fallout and/or leading to heat exchange failure.

Your aprehension over cooling issues is very understandable. After over twenty years of involvement in this market we see many situations where engine cooling is considered more as a "black art" rather than an engineering discipline.

In any case "good luck" with your vehicle.

Rick

[Richard D.]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

Anyone ever use a product from RedLine called "Water Wetter"?

I read that this also helps reduce overall temp by increasing the the heat transfer properties of regular coolant.

I've been considering getting some for a while now.

Thanks,

Rich

[John H.]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

Rich -

There's no substitute for the correct radiator (not just one that "fits", but one that equals or exceeds the original radiator's heat rejection capability), and any radiator over ten years old has lost about 20% (or more) of its original heat transfer efficiency due to internal scale and corrosion. The other side of the equation is airflow management, as that's what carries off the heat from the radiator's tube and fin surfaces; if the correct shroud, fan, seals, and (functional) fan clutch are in place and nothing is blocking incoming airflow, overheating problems are unlikely. "Water-Wetter" addresses short-term symptoms, not root causes; it allegedly helps minimize bubble formation at metal surfaces (or some similar miracle cure mechanism), but I've heard as many reports that it does nothing as I have reports that it helped. Cooling systems die slowly, especially if they don't get regular maintenance and fresh coolant, and the fixes for that don't come in a bottle - they come in a box

[Richard D.]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

I agree with you John.

I'm in the process this winter of redoing all the seals for correct airflow manangement this winter on my 68 SB (along with a lot of other stuff!). Most were missing when I got the car last year.

At least the radiator is fairly new (and correct), and I just replaced the heater core, aluminum fill tank, and hoses this past summer. Fortunately, the car never ran hot, but then, I really did not have any time for long extended drives in the heat.

Ques for you - My car came with a "flex" fan installed instead of the original clutch fan. Do these offer any advantages over a clutch fan? I assume they do not, but I'm not sure of the design rationale behind the flex fan, unless of course, if it's simply a cheaper fix/replacment for the clutch type.

Thanks,

Rich

[Doug Flaten]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

Everyone is looking for an easy way to cure an overheating problem. I think many are drawn to the idea of using Evans Coolant because of the promise of reduced corrosion. That is very attractive to collector car folks. If one digs far enough into the Evans literature, they will find out that they may expect to see higher operating temperatures. I did not see any claims by Evans of making the engine run cooler. However, it does claim to eliminate boil over. If someone uses 100% glycol in an effort to eliminate boilover and not address the root cause of the overheating, they are only treating the symptom. There is a downside to the benefits of higher temperature and compression. Running the engine at higher temps could also lead to detonation, and I did not see that mentioned prominantly in the literature. I used to look after some stationary engines that suffered cavitation pitting of the cylinder liners. I considered running propylene glycol due to its greater resistance to cavitation. However, in my case, that would have only addressed the sympton. We eventually located the cause and corrected it. I have not heard of a credible product that will make a deteriorated cooling system function like new. Assuming that the engine is in a stock configuration and properly timed, you usually find that nothing short of replacing the deteriorated components of the cooling system will address the root cause of the problem. But we are all still looking for the wonder product.

[John H.]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

Rich -

Flex-fans are generally found to be "bargain" replacements for OEM fan clutches; I'd never use one, or get anywhere near a running engine that has one; they're famous for fatigue failures where the blades attach to the hub, which results in large holes in hoods (or anything else that's in the way). The OEM cooling system was designed, developed, tested, and released as a "system" that worked when it was new, and if the components are properly maintained and replaced as necessary, it will continue to function as it did when new. Most backyard attempts to "improve" the system one piece at a time are failures, in spite of the Summit and Jeg's catalogs.

[Richard D.]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

Thank you John, this is now on my list to do.

By the way, nice Z28. I had a forest green SS396/375hp Camaro 1969 many years ago. Man, I loved that car.

Wish I still had it!

Regards,

Rich

[Art A.]

Re: Evans Cooling Systems

John, You are ABSOLUTELY correct and I could, but won't, tell about the many GM cases of backyard bubba's THAT attempted to "improve" the system and are not here to tell about it.
DON'T USE ANYTHING OTHER THAT WHAT WAS DESIGNED FOR THE SPECIFIC SYSTEM or you are just asking of trouble!
Art