Concours D'Elegance

[Dave Suesz]

About that "reliability'...

I find that the closer I get to OE, the better my car runs. It was, in fact, a daily driver from 1955-1967, and again in 1984 for several months when my only other car was in the shop for major restoration.

Careful reading of the GM specs led me to discover I had the wrong spark plugs for 20+ years, so I put the Delco resistor plugs, new OE points, OE static supressor, exact repro coil, and new carbon (!) core wires on. Car runs GREAT. I have repro bias tires on car, since I put less that 1k/yr on it. If it were still a driver, or, say, '57 fuelie, I MIGHT use wide white radials. I put new Delco gas shocks on this year. Very good!

Car has broken down exactly once, burned points. This was 19 years ago. Looking back, it's my own fault. Wrong plugs, generic coil, distributor static supressor missing, it's wonder the points didn't burn faster. Oh- I cleaned the points at the roadside and went home that time.

[Todd H 26112]

Re: Ironically, you mention reliability

Yeah and all ya had to do w/ a horse was feed it and get horseshoes once in a while. And before people got fat we used to walk places too. Perhaps for some it's best to not only stick w/ points but those wonderful bias ply tires and factory original non-hardened valve seats and paint jobs that can't withstand the outdoors.

"Why do people join the NCRS then moan about being 'forced' into restoration or preservation?"

Maybe because NCRS stands for Nat'l Corvette RESTORATION Society. But I agree, perhaps NCPS or NCRPS would work too.

[Ray C.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

I joined the NCRS to learn about restoration and preservation of Corvettes. The friendships and fun I have had with our local NCRS chapter and on-line friends are priceless. I have just completed the restoration of a 1965 roadster. My wife and I enjoy driving it to the local cruse nights, but I do not have a chance of winning a trophy or prize with this matching numbers, down to the thermostat housing, lacquer finish, base 250 HP Corvette. I am showing or should I say parking next to cars that have been repainted the wrong color, wrong hoods, wrong engines and many other non-original parts. The Corvettes are beautiful, extremely well done, and are the peoples choice but not to NCRS standards. The NCRS has established a standard for judging as to how the Corvette was originally produced. Those of us that choose to play in this arena are rewarded for our efforts, and those that choose to play at the local cruse nights or car shows are rewarded for their efforts.

Just my views!

Ray

[Kirk Turner]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

HI,

I'm the new guy who started this.

Within our society there exist the expertise, organization and infrastructure to judge corvettes as to "correctness". I'm all for members who want to put there car back together with lacquer paints and unpainted portions of their drive trains.

I joined because I wanted to take an old corvette and fix it up. At first wanted to say restore, but I want to do more than that. I want to protect it. I want the absolute best paint that can be put on the car (from what little I know of paints it is bc/cc). I don't want rub spots (naked fiberglass will absorb moisture from humidity and swell, affecting the paint). It is my goal to enter my car in Flight judging; not to settle for a Third Flight or Second Flight, but going for a Top Flight.

We need to recognize the fact that these cars need the absolute best materials put into them to 'restore' them. Some are 50 years old. Remember no one know how long fiberglass will last, it is a relatively new material. Lets reward the guy, or at the very least not take points away, for preserving his car. Our society has the expertise and organization to decide what is the best way to do this and we are remiss if we don't.

Thanks, Kirk

[Larry S.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

Kirk welcome and with out sounding offencive I think it is unfair to join and decide to change the orginazation.May bee what you say is true about rewarding a fellow for preserving a car,But I do not think this is the place to do it,Maybee you should start a new orginaztion to preserve the cars as you have stated but that not what this group is about. good luck in your quest for top flight.

[John M.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

Larry,
Maybe you are being a little too hard on Kirk. He may just not fully understand the NCRS. The NCRS is not just for restored or original Corvettes, it is for ALL Corvettes! To equate the NCRS with Flight Judging, or Bowtie or any other judging program is unfair to our organization. There is something for everyone at NCRS and if Restoring a trailer potato to 99%+ is not your cup of tea, then there are plenty of other reasons to attend a meet. I took a 60 to Duntov level this year, but am now building a LS6 powered 59/C4 hybrid. I fully intend to drive this car everywhere and go to every NCRS meet that I can. I would not trade the experience of bringing the 60 up from a derelic to Duntov for anything, but I love building cars of all types. At Hershey this year, it seemed the people who were having the most fun were the people who drove their cars cross country! Their cars were not sequestered on the judging floor and they were free to drive their cars antwhere they wanted.
There are those who live for for "original" corvettes and flight judging as well as Bowtie judging is a venue for them to be judged on their efforts. I think that lowering the standards would do nothing but dilute the honor of wining such a award! While I personally have problems with parts of flight judging, they are fairly minor and I will work to have my feelings known whenever I think that changes might be made. The concept however, is valid and stands alone as the gold standard by which Corvettes are rated.
Most of my restoration friends will still speak to me, even though I am "butchering" a 59 to make a hot rod out of it. There are a few who have made negative comments to me, but what the hell, I have my red shirt and don't have a damn thing to prove to them! Their are plenty of Show-and-shine style of car shows out there for modified and non-original cars, so don't expect to see judging move down to that level. This is not what NCRS is based on!

Regards, John McGraw

[Everett Ogilvie]

[Larry S.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

John Thank you for the insight.And as you know I do not have a mean spirit towards anyone.But before trying to redirect a society a person should better understand the directives and the mission of the society.

As you know I also plan on building a hybred 61/62 car with a tube frame and will thoroughley enjoy building it my way.I would never think of requesting the society to allow me to be judged with lower standards because I am building the hybred car the way ZORA would have done it,or that I am usingthe tecnology that is better today then when our cars were originally built.

[Joe C.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

Larry:

I am glad that you enjoyed my profile.....sometimes I surprise myself at how well I can put words together if I really put my mind to it.

I relly ment what I sed in my profyl, its relly true. I spent LOTS of good mony restorin my car. even bite the bullitt and used bicikle tires 775-15, tar top battry.....real cutting edge stuff.......just like in the book. But was I gonna throw on a coat of crappy, old fashioned paint on my baby. Was I gonna purposely slop up the paint job just like "from the factory"....I DON"T THINK SOOOO. It easy to remove the tirs and tar top when I get fed up with them, but not so easy the lakker.

Regards,
Joe

[Dick W.]

Re: The NCRS Standard

The ones of you that know me know that I have be involved in the judging process as much as anyone else, but the REAL reason that I belong to NCRS is the PEOPLE! Sure judging is fun if it is your thing. I have made many! friends and aquaintenances from all over North America. People that I would never have seen, talked to, met otherwise. I would not take everything that I own for my friends. I just use the cars as an excuse to get together.

Remember, it is a HOBBY. A hobby is supposed to be fun. Don't take it so seriously it is not fun. If you want BC/CC paint, so be it. Same for all of the other changes.

[Roy B.]

Re: Mike is right

I can see NCRS runing out of paper space deducting points on my Corvette and I have a hide-a-way hitch and mud flaps,I even pull a 1947 tear drop tralier with it. Can you spell SPORTSMAN ?

[Gregg Plapas]

Re: The NCRS Standard

AMEN BROTHER!

[mike cobine]

Don't change standards, change attitudes

Right on, Everett.

Most have the wrong attitude. It isn't a contest. It isn't about winning and beating others. It is about returning an old car to as close as possible as it left the factory many years ago.

As such, people having their cars judged shouldn't take it personal. It is supposed to be a learning experience. The judges are supposed to be helping you to acheive getting every part right. They are not about criticizing your car or your work, but critiquing it so you can do better.

The judge is supposed to be your ally in getting it 100% correct.

If you feel differently, then there are ways to find out why the judge isn't helping or maybe it is you that isn't helping the judge.

If you don't want to subject your work to such scrutiny, then don't have your car judged. Simple.

If you want to show your car with changes from the way it left the factory, then you have two choices - take the deductions or join a show and shine group.

For the most part, it isn't NCRS' problem, it is the person joining.

If you were discussing technical items that you are sure NCRS has made a mistake on (they have made several over the years), then that is a worthwhile argument.

If arguments were over metal headlights in '63s or lack of nose emblems on some '61s or such, then that is a worthwhile argument. But wanting them to relax the standards to allow non-stock items is not what NCRS is all about.

The argument to change the standards because you can't afford the effort carries as much weight as my argument that John Hinckley should sell me his blue '67 for $5000 because that is all I can afford. (Although I could always hope - my wife loves the color, John.)

[Patrick H.]

Re: Don't change standards, change attitudes

Mike,

You have to get in line behind me. I'm first on the list should he ever decide to sell. I keep telling John that his wife is going to sell it to me some day.

Patrick

[John M.]

Re: Concours D'Elegance

Hell Larry,
I might just run the 59 through flight judging just to see the look on the judges face! LOL

Regards, John McGraw