I received the 68/69 judgeing manual not to long ago. I was hoping to gleen a little more insight into the 68 corvette's unique characteristics. I have glanced over it and found things that are interesting to note and somethings that I sort of question. But today I did a little digging and I would like to state my opinion. The section on "Windshield Vent Grill and Wiper Door" is Bullsh-t. Not the whole section, just the part on part about the stainless trim that attaches to the top of the fender. They describe the trim as "different in 1968 and 1969" and they show a picture. So I went out and scrounged through my fender trim from 3 different 68 corvettes. They all have the remains of the original paint on them and they all look like the 69 corvette picture shown in the book. Possible they were changed at one time but I sort of don't think so. I would say in all probablity there was a design change somewhere in the production year of 68. That should be stated in the manual. If people wanted to, they could post what they find on their cars. Mine was a May 13th build day and I strongly suspect that the later version trim is correct for it. Later, Terry
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Re: 68 and 69 judging manual????
I have an original 68, built 7/18/68. The pictures in the JG are blurry, but I thought it looked correct. I have not seen a 69 lately, so have nothing to compare with. I'll check again. I just went through my 68 with the JG and have found a couple of obvious errors (probably typo's)and was planning to send an e-mail to the editors. The section on the rear storage tray and rear window storage have some paragraphs out of order that result in confusing reading. The description of the original Red Line Speedway Oval tire has a mistake regarding the distance of the Red Line from the rim and the description of where the oil fill cap is on a BB is wrong (says it's near the rear) I think that's not right.
There a lot of opportunity for error when someone undertakes a task of complicated documentation like the JG's. That's why there are revisions. Best thing to do is point out the descrepancies to the authors and see what they think.
Rich Giannotti1966 L79 Convertible. Milano Maroon
1968 L71 Coupe. Rally Red (Sold 6/21)
1963 Corvair Monza Convertible -
Re: 68 and 69 judging manual????
This is the third edition manual. There is a lot missing also. Another area that is totally wrong is the description on the inside door handles. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong Wrong Wrong. I can't believe that somebody would write that stuff as though there is no exception. There are 3 versions of 68 inside door handles and there may be more for all I know. I have one set that is very thin and has no ribbing (they are supper easy to break). I one set that are real thick with rounded backs and no ribbing (you could throw them under a train and make it derail). I have one's that are thin and have 2 ribs on the back (just right). There should be a huge disclaimer in the front of that book. Do they actually use this manual to judge cars? Regards, TerryComment
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Re: 68 and 69 judging manual????
"I can't believe that somebody would write that stuff as though there is no exception."
I 'think' there is a disclaimer somewhere at the front that says something to the effect of 'to the best of our knowledge...' But beyond that the general 'tone' of the language throughout is indeed that of a 'final authority' take it or leave it... And once that information is set down in B & W - there tends to then be a pervading attitude of since it was the first to be committed to words - that any differing observations like something you've seen over and over has the burden of proof. This is ESPECIALLY true if it is a 'change' vs an 'addition' to the manual information.
Generally most folks that are involved in writing or updating these are open minded or observant enough to take note of exceptions you note and pass on. But on occasion I've run across those that have little interest and perhaps too quickly dismissive of differing obervations originating from outside the authoring 'clique'.
"Do they actually use this manual to judge cars?"
Yes. But not only that - cars are in fact generally restored to what is stated in the books even if it means cobbling up an original or correct configuration. Despite any disclaimers - they do become de-facto canonized documents. This pasteurizes the population of restored cars to a predictably identical formula and serves to erase to some small degree some 'uniqueness' that likely did exist at some point in time depending the variables and years and such in question. Perhaps given enough years we can succeed in eradicating uniqueness from restored Corvettes.
I do find these publications to be an EXCELLENT resource - I'd recommend to ANYONE interested in restoring their car to most ANY standard - I just personally take them w/ a grain of salt rather than joining any ultra conformist herd. That is, I consider them living breathing guides gauged by my own judgement and not manuals even if the points I'm potentially rewarded may not reflect or agree w/ that perspective.Comment
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Re: Pasteurized I like that
Todd I can't agree more and that was by fare the best post I'v ever read.
Pasteurize! great word! little concern for early,late,logos, out side suppliers to G.M,replacement part,fiscal configuration of parts, second design, out side the norm of most Corvettes.And OPTIONS tho I know NCRS doesn't consider options.
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Re: 68 and 69 judging manual????
I agree. Regards, TerryComment
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Re: Or was it homogenized?
Thanks Roy. Did I say that? - maybe I meant to say homogenized? Perhaps both if the shoe fits... In either case - interesting image you posted there - gorgeous looking interior in fact - but hmmmm... I don't think that funny keypad 'device' I see laying on the tunnel is going to fly as a factory option.Comment
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Re: Or was it homogenized?
It's a remote unit for the Radio straped under the original radio and the CD changer in the rear R/S fender cavity. I can't spell eather!Comment
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More Jetson gizmos
Folks - someone needs to ask Roy about that 'oil eye round bulb looking thing' and get him to come clean...Comment
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Re: Pasteurized I like that
Roy,
That looks like your scruffy old 55; saw it at Monterey last year.
I like your sun glasses holder.
VerleComment
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And, The Moral Of This Story Is...
Only a naive schmuck would restore a car exactly as the TIM&JGs say when they have a mostly original car (or other observations of parts, etc) telling them how the restoration should be done.
If I am fairly confident that my car is original in a given area, I put it back like it was, even when that's in conflict with the TIM&JG. This approach will be a little risky on the judging field; I suppose you could draw judges who learned their skills in judging schools and from judging manuals. I once thought I could be an expert by reading the judging manual...now I know better. If the car isn't exactly like the TIM&JG, it could get nicked, but I can live with that if I know it has been restored to my best determination of original condition.
In my opinion, the best judges have done complete body-off restorations in the same year class, and have the experience and the scars to prove it. If there are errors in the judging manuals, then those individuals will be the ones to spot them. Sounds like you have a critical eye, Terry...probably a good candidate for flight judge (if you're not already).
The TIM&JGs were written by human beings with only limited number of observations to report, and consequently there can be exceptions to their experience. To improve the manuals, we have to keep making the editiors aware of contrary observations, and let them check it out. That's the only way the organization will benefit from the broad experience of the membership doing restorations.Comment
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Re: And, The Moral Of This Story Is...
I am not sure if I could ever judge these cars. I try to look at my car like I did when I first saw one driving down the street and I was only 8 years old. I am trying to live a dream I had when I saw it. When I saw the 68's come out, I just wanted to have one and have the experience of driving it. So I bought one several years ago (68/390hp) and I am on a mission to restore it to near new condition with as many original parts as possible. At times, I think I could have started with a better car but not any more. I have enjoyed the experience and the challenge. Sometimes, I think I enjoy working on the car more than anything else. My goal is to get it done this summer. Hopefully, it will happen. I am sure it will be fun letting that clutch out for the first time in so many years. One thing I have to say about fixing these cars, I really get a kick when I see how other people have made repairs in the past. You find little stories here and there. SIDE NOTE (can't help it) I am looking for the brake switch capacitor that attaches between the two leads of the brake light swith. If anybody knows where I could find one, let me know. It is about 1/2 the size of a role of pennies and attaches with a small metal strap to the switch. You'd know it if you'd seen one. Regards, TerryComment
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