ebay bidding: a bit tricky!!!

[Warren F.]

Re: Corvettes built from eBay parts

Gene: I agree as well!

I have been upside down in my last restoration for exactly those reasons. $91,931.00 spent on a '69 SS L78 convertible Camaro, (although it set a world record auction price and set the new owner back $85,000) at the time.

Mike: That is my first preference too. I made the exception to bid on ebay because of not finding those rare or hard to find parts at the big swap meets year after year. I guess I just didn't realize HOW VALUABLE that weatherstripping was to someone. $300.00 seemed a reasonable bid, however as Joe Lucia stated in another post of mine, the original stock has been out of inventory for some 27 years!!! Sure hope I find it somewhere else.

[Roy B.]

Re: Corvettes built Warren

I guy with your big bucks, cost mean's nothing,living in the rich town you live in. Ha! I say.

[Roy B.]

Re: Corvettes built from eBay parts

Any thing good or rare I have always gotten from talking to Corvette owners haveing the same Corvette and keeping my ears open when others are talking Corvette.And if I need it, I step up and pay the price. I don't believe in spending a dollor to save a dime like many people do.

[Todd H 26112]

Re: Why snipe ?...

Jack, Excellent post - I'd say that is very much a part of the psychology of sniping - much like auction fever itself - it becomes a 'competitive' thing.

The mistake those two made was that they bid arbitrarily high prices just to win - I still suggest even if one is sniping to stick w/ a realistic max bid regardless. This just gives one a 'time' advantage is all but one can still loose in sniping.

Another approach is that auctions automatically extend their deadlines by X minutes after teh last bid if it occurs within the lax X minutes of the auction - if somone outbids you - you still have X minutes to up it again regardless of the end time. In theory an auction could go on indefinately so some limit of how many bids may have to be imposed. This effectively would end sniping and the 'time game' as it is more appropriately called. But it also opens the door wider to 'auction fever' (unless one simply puts a max bid in and let's it ride as I suggested earlier). This may in fact potentially serve to raise selling prices and if that is the case ebay would benefit from it as would sellers.

[Todd H 26112]

Did you put in your MAX bid?

Steve,

I suggest to folks to simply place their MAX bid up front. If that is done and you still get beat by a sniper - then the sniper was willing to bid more. Either he paid too much (in your opinion) or he knows something you don't about the part. On the other hand if the sniper didn't bid enough to exceed your max bid - you still have it and didn't have to play the game of waiting for the last few seconds.

Now if you did NOT place your MAX bid up front - you probably have the wrong perspective on ebay. One should not look at ebay as a mechanism for bidding incrementally like at some country auction w/ a live auctioneer going back and forth across the room. Look at it more like a single sealed bid process (though there is a mechanism for showing who is in the 'current lead' during the process). Anybody can enter their sealed bid right up to the final second of the auction after which the one w/ the highest sealed bid (1 increment beyond the second highest) is the winner.

I like your 15 minute idea - I just mentioned the same thing a few minutes ago - but then there are probably some good reasons for not having it. I think it may play into the hands of 'auction fever' and one upsmanship to unrealistic prices in a few cases when more than 1 person wants an item (great for the seller and ebay).

A good MAX bid up front is a good defense against sniping. But it's not a defense against amateurs who are going to sit there and bid over and over again until they finally discover your max bid and are themselves the high bidder but often have no apparent clue as to reasonable price for something or how proxy bidding works. They just have a case of the 'gotta have its'. Sniping can defend against this.

THen again some of us do have a life outside of ebay!

[G B.]

Puzzling statements

Have I wandered into the Official Bulletin Board of the Flat Earth Society?

Why would anyone declare that they would never use an on-line source for a part they need? Because they can't touch, smell, or taste it? Well, that rules out printed ad sources like The Driveline. Most magazine ads don't even have photos of parts. Shoot, I buy stuff from any legal source I can find. I try to not overpay, but then who can really say when we've hit the "excessive" cost level? We are still talking about $30,000 toys for old men, aren't we?

Sniping is evil, bad, poo-poo? So then at a swap meet you shout out what you're willing to pay and then wait 15 minutes to see if anyone will pay more? What color is the sky on your planet? You enter the most you're willing to pay as a proxy bid BUT you moan that you would have bid higher if only there was more time to outbid a sniper. That doesn't even make sense to me, and I'm not very bright.

I buy and sell a lot of parts on eBay. I think it's capitalism at its best. Actually, eBay rescued me from my former life of travel to swap meets all over the country. The parts I've bought on eBay have at least equalled my swap meet purchases in quality and price. I've been able to sell a ton of stuff including entire engines and transmissions that I would have never lugged to a meet. You hold-outs are missing a good thing. But, don't you dare snipe and pay less than you absolutely have to in any of my auctions! R-i-i-ight.

[Roy B.]

Re: Jerry ! your a GOOD old man *NM*

[Todd H 26112]

Folks it's supply and demand is all

With the advent of ebay and digital images and the dark little secret the NCRS correct original Corvettes confer better prices - more folks are looking for this stuff.

Look closely at what you said - "bargains are becoming scarcer..." - sooooo? Sounds like you are saying you are paying current market value is all. And since the prestige comes from 'top flights' and such that requires original vs reproduction and so on. Simple supply & demand.

The supply hasn't changed on original parts and indeed is presumably shrinking. However instead of looking over a paper classified Driveline a few times a year and competing against only 15K or so NCRS members there (many of whom probably weren't ont eh edges of the seats combing the classified the same night to see who calls first) now you are competing against a WHOLE LOT more people 365 days a year on eBay. You are also competing against other buyers who may also know the value. Before you could often rely upon a generous or uninformed seller who guessed at what he thought he could get for it.

The demand has certainly changed due to two reasons: A) The 'originality' schtick has been successfully 'exported' to other Corvette folks and other models (and makes) as well. B) The doors have been thrown open for MANY more folks to have MUCH broader access to the same parts (supply) via ebay.

Sniping does NOT raise prices - in fact it probably serves to keep them DOWN! Look at some of the complaints above - people are frustrated because they dont' have a chance to outbid the sniper - think about it. Yes, there are those that simply bid unrealistic bids in sniping but those are exceptions and not representative of averages. They simply get great antecdotal airtime and become urban legend...

"...if you purchase too many over-priced parts for your restoration...".
Yes, it gets too expensive. Or why not simply do a non top flight restoration utilizing more repros and such? If it's "over priced" simply don't buy the part! While a top flight judge or purist may scoff - I've observed decreases on many good reproduction parts over the years judging from popular mail order catalogs. And many quality mechanical parts are available thru local parts stores.

If indeed prices are by and large increasing on ebay for orinal parts this in turn will only serve to impart YET MORE value to highly original top flight cars themselves - so in theory you can get more back out (I'm not suggesting a profit however).

Keep in mind things aren't always as simple or altruistic as they seem even in NCRS land. There are people that have a vested interest in maximizing the monetary value of original cars and some that have a vested interest in maximizing the values of 'original' parts. There are two sides to ever story and some are just as happy as pigs in @#$* w/ the advent of ebay. (and there are yet others that thought they had certain markets 'cornered' and ebay put 'em to shame w/ cheaper prices - again supply and demand - it cuts both ways)

If you expect ebay to be the great bargain bin it was a couple/few years ago - It ain't. And don't hold your breath expecting those days to return. Enough volume assures that on AVERAGE supply & demand assure fair market value. There are some great deals that trot out of there and there are some overpriced ripoffs - but the average auctions more and more get fair market value. This is a paradigm that has repeated itself in many many different market sectors within ebay - not just original Corvette goodies.

If you are looking for 'bargains' it comes down to choices: Reconsider the standard you are restoring to. 'Network' among friends in the hobby. Lobby for a simple addition of an additional forum right on this BBS for 'buy/sell/trade' as I have. Search out those venders who are computer illiterate or simply don't know what they have and take advantage of their ebay ignorance w/ low-ball offers. Sacrifice time and convenience and comb Driveline a few times a year on the eve you receive it and hope you can tell 'in time' on a 'good deal'. In trading w/ fellow Corvette enthusiasts - perform random acts of kindness in your trades and see if that Karma doesnt' come back to you w/ some sweet deals down the line. etc...

But I don't think ebay is the blame. The blame rests w/ increasingly high pure originality standards conferring the most value and the subsequent demand for the sum of parts needed to attain that and the fact that more people now have more immediate access via ebay to what parts are available that meet these standards.

[Todd H 26112]

You are correct

Ebay has fundamentally connected an extraordinary number of buyers and sellers and did so on a scale no printed classified ever could hope to achieve and you've just provided but one compelling example of it in action.

Sniping is what it is. It might be annoying to some but I've previously posted in another thread a couple weeks ago simple defenses against it.

Flat Earth Society! Too funny! you might want to check out my post as well elsewhere in this thread.

[Todd H 26112]

Re: Why snipe ?...

It could drag things out but it's an interesting idea. Perhaps some limit as to how many bids could be placed or something. I dunno. From a sellers standpoint or an auction sites stand point it could be a good thing.

It does promote more of an interactive incremental bid vs the 1 'sealed' bid that ebay does per it's proxy MAX bidding. (well it's kinda sealed)

But if you put yoru max bid in up front - it really doesn't matter if the auction lasts 7 days or 7 days and 15 minutes. Unless you catch auction fever and reconsider your 'max' bid!

11P-12A EST is a good time for leisure/hobby related items because folks often stay up late on the east coast and it catches a lot of people online just when an auction is ending across all 4 major time zones. I don't know about Corvette stuff but for other items there are certain days that seem to be better than others. NOt just snipers - a lot of people often surf the stuff that is just coming up on closing to see if any good deals can be had and sort their auction views according to this. I know I always sort based on what's closing first after doing a search.

[Clem Z.]

jerry that $30,000 before or after the restoration *NM*

[Jack W.]

Re: ebay bidding: a bit tricky!!!

Craig: Your statement: "Bottom line, with snipe bidding, whoever is willing to pay the most wins the part, pure and simple........" is factually and logically incorrect, at least in my view.

An auction is, in fact, the best way to ensure whomever (in the audience) is willing to pay the most for the item being auctioned wins the part, true, but sniping is not a part of the normal auction process, in fact it distorts the notion. At an auction (have you ever been?) the bidding continues until no one is willing to bid higher, the maximum price has, in fact, been met as far as those who participated in the auction are concerned. Your statement might reasonably be modified to read: "With snipe bidding, it is not whomever is willing to pay the most for the part that wins, [because the snipe actually FEARS exposing his bid to others who might be willing to pay more], rather it is whomever is able to time his bid to the last second that wins the auction."

Snipe bidding is not unlike driving in the breakdown lane during rush hour traffic - a rather self-centered behavior that works great for the actor (while the other drivers behave themselves and play by the rules) until others start doing the same thing, and then the open lane gets clogged with other like-minded folks. IMHO, ebay will be addressing the problem of snipe bidding in some fashion soon.

With all that said, I forgive those who snipe because it seems you have to play that game these days (or at least be on line at the close of the auction to defend against snipers and in so doing become a sniper) since it is such an epidemic. However, I still have no affection for those who do not particpate in the bidding for an item until the last 5 seconds . . . .

[Jim W.]

AMEN! Re: Puzzling statements

I have purchased rare early Corvette items on eBay that I would NEVER have found rooting around at car show flea markets. They are almost non-existent at flea markets and if you do find something interesting, the vendor barks out a price that is laughable. I really get a kick out of the closet bidders on this discussion board that complain about eBay on a regular basis while eBay has become one of the best sources for hard to find Corvette items. Jim - Member #2978

[Robert W.]

Re: Puzzling statements

Jerry is right in that e bay is capitalism at its best. You decide what you are willing to pay and enter your maximum bid. If you get it fine if you don't you consider it over priced and move on. Lets face it most of us are getting too old and suffer from bad backs and hemorrhoids to ride all over the country hoping to find someone who is selling a part they have no idea of the value. I believe e bay has brought the seller together with a large group of people who know what certain parts are worth and let them bid a fair price from them. Those of us who have hoarded prices for years and refuse to sell any have hope for the families and estates. Instead of one slim ball individual approaching the family after our death and offering them pennies on the dollar for our "prizes' they can now sell them on e bay get what the market will bare. In this case my concern is not prices going through the ceiling for original parts but the bottom falling out of them. There are a lot of parts stored in garages and warehouses that one day will be liquidated and I, against popular belief, don't think people that have the love for these vehicles are coming into the hobby at the rate we are dying off. Look at our meets; we look like the poster children for a geriatric ward and getting worse each year. That is my two cents worth.

[Reba Whittington]

Re: Puzzling statements

Very well-stated, Robert. Unfortunately, you are correct in the the statement about the aging of our hobby.