how do you tell them ... continued

[Dale P.]

those that followed this story .. know that I have come across a corvette that I owned (as well as my father) in the early 70's .. is was a 67 conv .. red on red 390 HP car that had a blown engine and some body damage in the back and nose sections .. some damage happened before "we" owned it and some when I tried to move a parked pick up with the front end .. well with that said .. I recently came across the car again (very much by accident).. it is now a 435 HP car .. with all the correct docs white on red .. I had a little concern about contacting the owner and relaying the fact that it never was a 435 HP car and it fact the 390 HP motor had long since been trashed .. so I asked to obtain the thoughts of fellow memebers ..most thought that I should contact him and inform him of this fact ..I did contact him and talked as if I was just curious about the car and some of the history .. he bought the car from a dealer ( who I tried to contact and can not locate in Fl) .. the car was bought as 100% orginal and fully documented all the way back to the selling dealership .. my name nor my fathers ever appeared yet this is our old 67 corvette .. which I can prove ... HOWEVER, one member stated be careful .. so I was and talked to my lawyer .. and learned some very interesting things .. UNLESS "I" can prove without doubt that this car is not what it is stated to be, the current owner has the right to sue me should he/she prove that my statements caused their investment harm ..I thought that a few pictures of me and the car would do this .. but to my surprise "NO" is the answer... I have no documentation of any type from a "expert" that the car was NOT an orginal car during my ownership .. and surprisingly what I learned from the current owner .. he had the car judged at an NCRS meet and it passed with flying colors .. even the 435 engine! oh and by the way the tank sticker too ... amazing since I had to replace the tank in 74 ....
So to end this story .. I know the car is a fake .. not oginal by any means .. can not prove a thing, he too knows it is a fake but now has the NCRS blessing that the car is a 435 HP car .... what a sweet way to make money .. and get away with it !!!!!!!!! Maybe I should quite my 9-5 job and start to sell "orginal Corvettes" .. If I sound frustrated .. I am ...

[Richard S.]

Re: how do you tell them ... continued

Dale, I did not post when you originally asked the Board for advice. It would seem that if you know the VIN. of this car it should be posted, perhaps in the form of a search for information on a car you once owned. This way NCRS members can post information they may have and you may find others who knew the car either before you or after. For the good of all of our members I do hope you post more information about this car. You do seem concerned for others and I hope you follow through with this.
Very best regards,
Rick Snow.

[Dave Suesz]

It's a pity the GM invoices aren't available...

like the 67- up Ford invoices. Does anyone know if any of this data is out there?

[Dick W.]

Re: how do you tell them ... continued

Hmm! The old iced tea and microwave tank stickers are alive and well I see.

[Clem Z.]

if all this is true

should the NCRS get involved in this deal since a member is sure this car is a fake? it would seem the integrity of the NCRS is at stake. JMHO

[Gary C.]

Re: how do you tell them ... continued

You are obviously quite torn and frustrated over this. Your post contains an important inaccuracy that should be noted. While some owners and many sellers would state otherwise, NCRS does not give "blessings" or permanent certifications to corvettes. A flight award is a result on a single day and in reality that is where it ends. To expect more, particulary when shopping for a 435, would be foolish. Perhaps the pad and trim tag "passed with flying colors" on a particular day, but I personally would never accept that as fact.

Knowledge is what the next buyer of that car (or any 435 or any old corvette) needs and I believe the NCRS is doing a very good job of making available the type of knowledge one requires to make an informed decision.

NCRS does not judge 1967 tank sheets during flight judging. Via NCRS and some of its members one could seek out some very good opinions re the authenticity of any document for the car in question as well as trim tags, pads, etc.

I appreciate your concern over your old car, perhaps you can take comfort in knowing you are not responsible for ridding the hobby of the less than honest. You can help to level the playing field by participation in the NCRS if so inclined.

[Les Jacobs]

Re: how do you tell them ... continued

I say , thank you for trying and doing the right thing and Im glad you didn't pay a painful price. Im glad you're on our side. Les

[John H.]

Re: It's a pity the GM invoices aren't available..

Jim Mattison's still working on it (under contract to Chevrolet); if/when his company finds anything, we'll all know about it - quickly

[Ed Jennings]

Re: It's a pity the GM invoices aren't available..

John, isn't it a forgone conclusion that at least some of this info exists? It seems that if Mr.Mattison had nothing to work on that the results would be available very quickly.

[Patrick H.]

Re: It's a pity the GM invoices aren't available..

"It seems that if Mr.Mattison had nothing to work on that the results would be available very quickly."

Let's see...

He's a consultant, likely working on a monthly retainer plus costs....

How long would YOU keep it going???

One of our NCRS members couldn't find the info when he worked for GM. I have less faith that Jim will, but I'd be just as happy as the rest if he did.

Patrick

[Ed Jennings]

Re: It's a pity the GM invoices aren't available..

I understand, through less than 100% reliable sources (ie internet forums), that information has surfaced for other GM divisions. Pontiac was it? Anyway, hopefully info will become available.

[Roger Legge]

Re: It's a pity the GM invoices aren't available..

The Pontiac Historical Services service has been available for some time. My knowledge in this area is darn near zero, but I want to say I've read the records for Canadian sold Chevrolets, the equivalent to the records used for the PHS US vehicles, have been found for some time. For whatever that's worth, which is most likely zip.

Roger
#36316

[Roy B.]

Re: Us old guys have known this for years.

Sorry to say your's is not the first or last one I'v seen or know of over the last 35 years owning many Corvettes. That is the difference between ORIGINAL and CORRECT Corvettes.

[Patrick H.]

Re: It's a pity the GM invoices aren't available..

Jim Mattison runs the Pontiac Historical Services, so that's his connection with all of this.

GM of Canada was required by the Canadian Gov't to keep records, and that is why they are available. No such requirement in the US of A, so the records are, by all accounts, gone.

Remember the last scene of "Raiders of the Lost Ark" when you see the ark in a crate going into a government warehouse? Now think of the same with regard to the Corvette (or Chevrolet in general) work orders. I've heard a story similar to this from One Who Knows. The odds of finding the records if they exist? Slim.

Patrick

[Clare Carpenter]

(Message Deleted by Poster)

Message Deleted by Poster