C2- body off or body on?

[Glenn Ochs]

I had planned on a complete body-off repaint and restore on my 67 L71 Vert. I've had time to think and now I'm wondering which way I want to go. I really don't want to spend the big bucks on body removal and restoration as I want to be able to drive the car without the perfect undercarraige concerns.
1)Will I still be able to do a complete re-paint of the Sunfire yellow to a show standard and not go through with the body-off aspect?
2)What might be the pitfalls of not going all the way, right away?
3)Is there any thing I have to make sure I do if I only do the re-paint?
4)Is there any articles on the proper way to do a body-on repaint? IE: do you strip all old paint or not/what to remove / what not?

Thank you very much for any direction/information you might offer on this. I am really at a crossroads. Don't want a trailer queen but do want a front line unit. Regards Glenn

[Joe L.]

Re: C2- body off or body on?

Glen-----

It's a lot more difficult to achieve an original, as-factory-configured, paint job with the body-on. However, with a lot of extra effort you can come close.

Notwithstanding the above, I totally agree with your decision to not remove the body but for different reasons than yours. I DO NOT RECOMMEND a body-off restoration for DRIVEN cars. I would NEVER, EVER perform a body off restoration on my own car.

Nothing will restore a car to its original appearance bteer than a body-off restoration. However, many other problems are created for a DRIVEN car. Keep in mind that these Corvette bodies are now 35-50 years old. They are ABSOLUTELY NOT as supple as they were when new. Many changes take place in ORGANIC MATERIAL like FRP over this many years. By now, they have completely conformed to their original SET on the frame. They will NOT TAKE KINDLY to disturbance from this SET, and such disturbance is INEVITABLE in a body-off, regardless of how painstaking and careful one tries to be. Possible results are a cracked body and an almost-always result is far more squeaks and rattles than were present before the body-off. This is not a good thing in a Corvette which already may suffer from a generous helping of this malady.

I have discussed this subject with folks that have been in the business of restoration and Corvette sales/service (who shall remain nameless) and they ALL agree with my opinion.

Can a body-off restoration be performed which results in none of the above-referenced OR OTHER problems? Of course! It's not likely, but it can happen. Just keep in mind that if problems ARE created, you "can't go back".

[Ray G.]

Re: C2- body off or body on?

I have done two body off's. As careful as I was to retrieve, count and bag the shims, there is a certain amount of deterioration to the shims which I guess the body had grown accustomed to. I replaced with new shims, and reassimbled everything the best I could. I did not have any problems with the body, but I think it had more to do with luck then expertese on my part. I agree with Joe.

[Ed Jennings]

Re: C2- body off or body on?

Glenn, you can certainly do a very nice body on paint job. As Joe stated, you have to use a little extra care. You should take everything off that can be gotten off. I would remove the hood, deck lid, and possibly the doors to paint, carefully reinstalling after painting. Get some professional masking supplies, not just tape and newspaper. Often nice to paint the car on jackstands to be able to get underneath the front and rear as well as the lips of the wheelwells, etc.

I would NOT do a frame off resto on a car, period, unless the frame needed repair. With a little patience and perserverance you can make a frame on look almost as nice as a frame off, particularily if you have access to a lift.

[Rob A.]

Re: C2- body off or body on?

I am about ready to put the body back on my chassis on a '67 I dissmantled. Although it is coming out very well and I'm sure the next owner will be pleased....my next car will be a "body on" restored vehicle. I think in the near future it will be harder to find a nice "undissmantled" vette. I've already started looking for one as my project nears completion. I know several owners who had their cars painted after installing the body on a completely restored chassis. It requires extensive preparation and care. I saw pictures of the vehicle prep prior to paint and it was quite extensive. Make sure you get a reference from an owner who had their car painted "body on". If they are happy with the results find out if the same employees who did their car are still working there. Often times references are given, but the same workers are no longer there.

[mike cobine]

C2- body off or body on? How much time you have?

If you are rebuilding anything on the chassis (engine, transmission, brake lines, etc. it is a lot easier and nicer to sit overlooking a clean chassis than crawling under a dirty one.

But if all you are doing is painting the car, leave the body one. First off, you pull the body for a few simply things, then you will do a few more. Then a few more. Soon, there won't be two parts connected to each other.

And you can completely disassemble a Corvette in a day, but it will take 10 years to put it all back together. What kind of time schedule do you have before you drive it again?

Ever see all the basket cases on eBay? They started a body-off restoration.

[Glenn Ochs]

Re: C2- body off or body on? How much time you hav

Mike ...I tend to agree with you. I am quite afraid of the timeline on this type of project. Right now,the bodyshop is set to go with the prep on the body. Really,no good reason to body-off other than sweat the details. The engine and engine compartment are essentially done. The frame is near perfect,brakes are stainless and everything works. The more I read these responses the more I feel I'm leaning in the right direction. No body lift for me. Glenn

[John M.]

Re: C2- body off or body on?

Glenn, I'm just about finished with a body off on a 67 convertible and wouldn't do it any other way. It's a lot easier to work on a chassis from above than to try to get into all those places where crud and rust are hiding with the body on. I'm sure there are the risks noted above when removing the body but I did this myself and I'm no automotive engineer. The biggest single job for me was stripping ALL the paint off the body, which you will have to do anyway. I had the frame acid dipped and did all the blasting, painting, and reassembly myself. It's about 1500-2000 hours work, which has taken me about two years.
I guess if your frame and undercarriage are all in very good shape you can just strip and repaint but there are few cars with those conditions, especially ones like yours.

[Kevin M.]

Re: C2- body off or body on?

Glenn,

My cars Sunflower Yellow, paint job came out great with body left on, we even left some original factory paint on the car. We saved a jamb and under the deck lid and gas cap. We chemically stripped to bare fiberglass and replaced the previous body work. When my car was done it was in the same original condition but with new paint, turned out great.




My Yellow Car

[Chuck R.]

Re: Time and $$$$

As the body had to come off mine anyway, my decision was easier.

What happened though is that my one year superficial (driver) resto project is now well into the second full year and I'm just now ready to re-assemble SOME refinished components.

It's amazing how one thing leads to another, especially when you can stand in the middle of a naked chassis and look at it from the top side!

A couple of more years I figure for my project at the rate I'm going

Watch it Glenn, It's like eating peanuts, before you know it your into purchasing frame stencils, researching proper paint daub locations and colors and laying on your back stripping crap from the underside of the body.

I don't mean for it to sound intimidating Glenn, but frame offs can potentially cost bucks....lots of them!

Good luck with your decision,

Chuck

[William C.]

Re: Time and $$$$

On the other hand, there is no doubt that you will turn out a much better driving and handling car if the chassis is totally Disassembled, Bushings replaced, bearings checked, replaced and the like. New Brake and fuel lines also add to a sense of security and the long line cannot be replaced with the body on without surgry to the line. I did a Frame resto on a '65 a couple of years ago, and am about to pull the body on my other '65, just can't think of doing it any other way. How long it takes is a lot dependent on the condition of the parts when the frame is naked.

[mike cobine]

Re: Time and $$$$

How long it takes is a lot dependent on the condition of the parts when the frame is naked.

Obviously, a man who has no kids around and probably not married.

Add kids and it can take two weeks just to put the wheels back on after a brake job.

[Tracy C.]

And another month to find all the lug nuts.... *NM*

[Chas Henderson #28127]

You can make the frame look good....

You can do a body on paint job, then you can do the frame and be really proud of it. I had my 71 painted first, the over the next three years during the winter, I pulled the engine and tranny and detailed the engine compartment. Then the udercarriage. It wasn't that hard. It just takes jack stands, lots of degreaser and rags. Again, you can make it look great. I pulled the interior and repainted all the guages and lights. The good part about this method is that the car is only down for 3-4 months a year. It also keeps you smiling while you drive it and it was easier on the wallet, the whole job becomes much easier to manage and keep you focused. Good luck.

Chasman

[Glenn Ochs]

Re: You can make the frame look good....

Hi to everyone responding. I had cookie problems and couldn't post earlier. Hopefully this works. Thank you to all above for the information and experience. I am tending to agree with most of the responders and go with a first class body-on paintjob. I am truely afraid of starting a body-off process I won't have the time nor money to complete. The 2000 hours required,as some are mentioning would take me an easy 3000 days to find. Really would like to drive and show the car prior to 2010. The lastest post regarding a step-by-step body-on frame and undercarraige restoration is very appealing. Fits my situation just fine. Thank you all immensely. Proof once again..."You guys are good!"