Just curious if anyone has tried or seen the reproduction cast iron manfolds by Paragon, specifically the 2 1/2" non FI. They are highlighted in their catalog as manufactured by them. Quality, accuracy, etc.
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Re: Reproduction Exhaust Manifolds (Paragon)
the small block exhaust manifolds that i've seen and judged from paragon and service relpacements fom GM typically lack the casting flaws on the upper surface (installed) of the manifolds, but rather have evidence of the casting flaws having been removed by Mr Grinder. they take a hit on the judging field if they lack the casting flawsor if they have the deep radial grinding scars. . mike -
Re: Reproduction Exhaust Manifolds (Paragon)
Clare,
I inquired of the casting nubs #14 is refering to along the top myself. Original manifolds have 7 or 8 nubs along the seam line along the top of the manifold. They are approximatly 1/8 tall X 1/8 wide X 1/2 long.
I never recieved a responce from Paragon regarding the presence of these. Therefore I didn't order them.
I pick a set up on eBay and restored them myself. These thing come up all the time. Find a reputable sellar and ask alot of questions.
good luck,
tcComment
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Re: Reproduction Exhaust Manifolds (Paragon)
I'm not too far from Paragon, the next time I'm up there I'll bring mine for comparison. It's not a must have item for me since I already have a set but one of mine had a small crack that needed bronzing. To cover the repair I had them Jet Hot coated. I haven't been happy with the 'cast iron grey' color which I think is too light and the coating also affects the porosity. A nice fresh set would be great but no sense paying up for an item that will have a deduct when what I already have will too. Possibly no net points gain, just a fresher appearance.
Mike, do you have an idea what the deduct on originality might be when manifolds are coated? What about for SS locks? The guide says to assign 6 pts for exhaust header pipes and heat control valve. What would cause a deduct there? How is condition (25 pts) judged when manifolds are coated. Thanks for the insight.Comment
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Re: Reproduction Exhaust Manifolds (Paragon)
clare ;i can almost guarantee lack of nuib manifolds will get a much bigger deduct than an original with a small crack. mikeComment
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Re: Reproduction Exhaust Manifolds (Paragon)
Clare,
Scroll down half a page to this Post by J Hinckley...
Re: A Gret Job Also
John Hinckley -- Monday, 22 December 2003, at 12:09 p.m.
Therein he is discussing a point deduction for the aluminum spray process shown on his Z-28 manifolds. I'll bet the jet hot coating would recieve the same minimal deduction.
Keep in mind, I think he painted these to provide the right color. I don't see why you couldn't paint the jet hot coating on your manifolds in the same manner.
Mike may have more to add on the stainless locks, but I think the judging manual specifies a standard 50% deduct for stainless replacement parts. The question we need answered here is how much do the french locks contribute to the total score.
tcComment
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Re: Reproduction Exhaust Manifolds (Paragon)
If you buy used, try to make sure the studs are in and in good shape. It is difficult to replace them if the manifold has seen even a little age. If you try to replace them a couple of things happen. They twist off and then you mess up the treads getting them out or you can get them out and they simply won't hold the stud very tight. If studs are in and look fair, try to leave them alone. If you use a torch to heat them up, it is hard on the cast iron and makes it brittle.
For a while everybody went GaGa over the repro manifolds. Then, people started to look at them closely. What they found was that the characters where not correct for the year that the original manifolds were made. Depending on the year the GM insignia had a different size, dates looked different, castings had changes but had same part number, etc. People payed big bucks and later found that the manifold could be easily spotted as reproduction. They know about this and tried to correct it but I suspect they try or tried to move the incorrect one's. Just be aware of really what is correct for your car and year. It seems to be never ending. I would try to find a nice used set and preferably see them up close. Conditions vary considerably. I have found a lot in old junk yards but they are starting to dry up. Good luck, TerryComment
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Re: Reproduction Exhaust Manifolds (Paragon)
The judging sheets allocate five originality points to "Bolts, studs, nuts, flanges, locks, washers & heat riser", so I can't imagine the SS locks being more than a one-point originality deduction.
The manifolds are allocated fifteen originality points, split across the five axes; three points for each axis.
In either case, unless you lose more than 90% of the originality points, you're still eligible for full condition points.Comment
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Seems best to stay with what I have for now...
Thanks guys. Tracy, I am familiar with the technique used by Camaro Hi-Perf and normally it looks great! I talked to Jerry McNeish about the manifolds but he wasn't sure about how the results might look over the bronzed repair. I would also have to have the Jet Hoat coating removed myself before sending. Part of the problem is that the welded repair doesn't have the same texture (or color) as the cast iron. That's why I had them coated to begin with. The aluminum spray weld will certainly cover the bronzing and then the manifolds can be "colored" correctly but the smooth texture of where the weld was ground flush will still show through, maybe more than it does now with the Jet Hot. On the plus side, the porosity of the cast iron will look better on the rest of the manifold(s). I'm just not sure I want to pony up the money and then still not be happy with the results. I figured if the repro manifolds were accurate copies that might offer a solution. It seems I am best served keeping what I have currently. Maybe I'll get lucky and find a left side manifold in good condition to match my right one.
My studs are in real good shape. I bought the SS studs but never installed them.
FYI: Looking the manifolds over closely reminded me of something that ticked me off when I first got them back from Jet Hot. They carved a job number on the back side of the manifolds next to the engine block. I complained to them about it but the damage was done. Granted no one sees it but they could have wired a tag thru one of the holes to identify the job instead of engraving numbers in the cast iron. Don't take anything for granted when sending out parts!!Comment
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Re: Reproduction Exhaust Manifolds (Paragon)
Are the 327 2 1/2 inch 63 Impala exhaust manifolds the same as the 62 Corvette 2 1/2 inch non fuel injection exhaust manifolds?Comment
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Re: Reproduction Exhaust Manifolds (Paragon)
I think the 63 Impalas with 300 Hp & Air Conditioning did use the "901" LH and "902" RH manifolds. (These both have the pointed accessory boss up front)
These manifold were also used on all 300 and 340 HP Corvettes (62 & 63) with or without A/C.Comment
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Re: Reproduction Exhaust Manifolds (Paragon)
Thanks for the info Tracy.Comment
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Back to the top-Paragon C1 Repro exhaust manifolds
I had a chance to compare my originals to the Paragon reproduction 2 1/2" cast rion exhaust manifolds. My LH manifold had a small crack which was repaired. I'd like to be able to replace it. Comparing both LH manifolds side by side there are very few noticable differences.
Paragon's reproduction manifold has three casting marks along the casting mold parting-line seam on the top of the manifold, each mark is approx 1" long and is about the same height and width as those found on my original. My original has seven casting marks, each about 1/2" long, spaced along the casting mold parting line seam. That is the main difference I noticed between the two manifolds. On both manifolds the casting mold seam runs along the entire length of the top and there is no evidence of slag being ground off.
The GM characters and other casting numbers are VERY close in size and location. The machined surfaces of the mounting bosses are round on the repro. On my original, the machining runs a bit off onto the ridge that forms the top of the triangle of the mounting boss. Other than the 3 vs 7 casting marks on the casting mold parting-line seam, I don't believe you could tell the difference between Paragon's reproduction and an original, once installed.
Are the number of casting marks judged? No mention is made of the number of these marks to be found in either the Judging Manual or Tech Info Manual & Judging Guide.Comment
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Re: Back to the top-Paragon C1 Repro exhaust manif
Clare - You did good in observing the difference between original and reproduction. The answer: Everything is judged, but it all depends on the knowledge of the judge doing the judging that day, that meet, that car... DCComment
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Re: Reproduction Exhaust Manifolds (Paragon)
If the same foundry is casting from the same patterns used in the 1960's, as are being used today, what judge has the right to decuct anything.Comment
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