The 30-30 Camshaft vs. The LT 1 - NCRS Discussion Boards

The 30-30 Camshaft vs. The LT 1

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  • Duke W.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • January 1, 1993
    • 15610

    #16
    Re: The 30-30 Camshaft vs. The LT 1

    Sound has more to do with exhaust system configuration than the camshaft. For example the '62 and '63 FI engines sound very different even though they are essentially the same engine. The primary reason is the crossover on '62s that '63s don't have, but the piping size and shape and internal details of the mufflers have a lot to do with it, too.

    Lobe center angles can be very misleading and don't mean anything unless you are comparing the same lobes. Also, the 30-30 and LT-1 cams have asymmetric lobes, so the point of maximum lift does not correspond to the center of the lobe, but the distance between the points of maximum lift is usually quoted as the "lobe center". For a given design of inlet and exhaust lobe the lobe center angle is a relative measure of overlap, but is meaningless when comparing two different sets of lobes. The following is the measured effective overlap is sq-in-degs (from the Engine Analyser simulation program) for the three SB mechanical lifter cams using 1.94"/1.50" valves and the timing points at .006" valve lift with rocker ratio adjusted lash to take up the clearance at the top of the ramp.

    Dunt.: 0.9, 110.5 LCA, (110.5 deg between pts of max lift)
    30-30: 3.7, 112.5 LCA, (114 deg between pts of max lift)
    LT-1.: 1.2, 114.9 LCA (114 deg betwenn pts of max lift)

    As you can see, the Duntov cam has the narrowest LCA, but the least effective overlap. The 30-30 has more effectice overlap than is beneficial for an engine with conventional exhaust manifolds, which is why it only makes marginally more peak power than the LT-1 cam, but takes a HUGE hit in low end torque.

    Another factor that effects the sharpness of the exhaust note is the point at which the exhaust valve opens. The earlier the opening, the steeper the initial wave due to higher cylinder pressure. The LT-1 has the earliest opening exhaust valve of the three.

    Duke

    Comment

    • Duke W.
      Beyond Control Poster
      • January 1, 1993
      • 15610

      #17
      LT-1 dist between max lift points is 116, not 114 *NM*

      Comment

      • Terry M.
        Beyond Control Poster
        • September 30, 1980
        • 15573

        #18
        Re: The 30-30 Camshaft vs. The LT 1

        Joe,
        As you well know, and the reason I asked the question - there is nothing like the sound of an original exhaust system on an older Corvette. Unfortunately they are becoming much like chicken lips. Once the original exhaust system is gone, and eventually they all will, the discussion about the effect of the cam on exhaust note becomes moot.
        Terry

        Comment

        • Joe C.
          Expired
          • August 31, 1999
          • 4598

          #19
          Re: The 30-30 Camshaft vs. The LT 1

          Duke:

          As we discussed before, subjectivity plays a very large part in this Corvette game. Because the 30-30 is more "radical" than the LT1, it will very definately affect the cadence of the idle pulses, which is what most folks will call a "lumpy" idle. This is the "visceral" aspect that is impossible to duplicate with more modern technology. The LT 1 cam was designed as a transition between the radical bumpsticks of the mid to late sixties, and the emissions era cams of the seventies, designed to work with the open chambered heads of the era.

          Comment

          • Duke W.
            Beyond Control Poster
            • January 1, 1993
            • 15610

            #20
            Re: The 30-30 Camshaft vs. The LT 1

            As I said the steepness of the primary exhaust pressure wave is a function of when the exhaust valve opens and how quickly it opens, but total idle ignition timing will play a big role, too.

            Idle stability and "lope" are a function of valve overlap and idle speed.

            Duke

            Comment

            • Clem Z.
              Expired
              • January 1, 2006
              • 9427

              #21
              if you are running a carb,not FI

              blocking the intake manifold heat riser crossover will make for a different sounding exhuast. back in the flat ford days we used copper pennies to do this and it made the duel pipes really bark. we knew nothing about it increasing HP

              Comment

              • Joe C.
                Expired
                • August 31, 1999
                • 4598

                #22
                Sacreledge! Are You Talkin' About Siamesed

                3-5 and 4-6 ports, with an L head engine, dating back to 1932. Just run 2 deuces and let'er rip, for about 120 horsepower.

                Comment

                • Clem Z.
                  Expired
                  • January 1, 2006
                  • 9427

                  #23
                  how i got from ford to chevy

                  59 AB block,dual 97 strombergs,belond headers with duals,zepher gears in the tranny,blocked heatriser crossover,3/4 cam with johnson adjustable lifters and model T vibrating ignition coil firing spark plugs in the tail pipes to have "flamethrowers". those were the days. i had this in my 41 ford,my first bought car. i went to buy a new ford in 1953 and after i got the money the dealer said i needed $8 more because it had a vacuum booster fuel pump. i did not have $8 more so i went across the street to the chevy dealer with my money and he sold me a new 1953 210 2 door and as they say the rest is history. 9 new corvettes and 30+ chevy cars and trucks later it was ford loss and my gain.

                  Comment

                  • Joe C.
                    Expired
                    • August 31, 1999
                    • 4598

                    #24
                    Thanks For The Memories, Clem

                    I am 52 years old, and I can dimly remember my dad's '54 Merc with Ford,s first OHV V8 (292 Y-Block), with a "Merc-O -Matic " trans (2 speed auto). Lord, I wish that I had that car now, she was red, with black hardtop,red and white gut. My earliest memories are of dad's 1951 Merc, with flathead V-8. I think that she was green, with grey gut. My next project will definately be a 1949-51 Ford or Merc, chopped and channelled, with Chevy Power, of course.

                    Joe

                    Comment

                    • Joe C.
                      Expired
                      • August 31, 1999
                      • 4598

                      #25
                      PS

                      I think that the 312 CI engine was only available in the Lincoln and Merc in '53-'54. After that, it was available on the T-Bird in '55.
                      Ford/Lincoln/Merc/Hudson ruled in the 1950's. How many of you remember the original version of the song "Hot Rod Lincoln".

                      This was before Zora rattled everybody's cage.

                      Comment

                      • Chuck S.
                        Expired
                        • April 1, 1992
                        • 4668

                        #26
                        Re: Thanks For The Memories, Clem

                        Joe, I believe the Ford-o-matics and Merc-o-matics were three speed transmissions.

                        I had a 52 Ford coupe with Ford-o-matic, and I hated it. A gear-head high school buddy told me I could drive the transmission like a stick if I started out in "L" and wound it out (euphemistically speaking ), then shifted to "D" and immediately back to "L" after the trans shifted, it would hold second gear. Then you could shift back to "D" to allow the trans to shift to thift gear when you were ready. Kind of a euro "slapstick-o-matic".

                        I finally got up enough courage to try this suggestion and it worked, but it really didn't make any difference...that flat head was just a dog. It was so slow, you could use an hour glass to measure its time in quarter mile, and the type of transmission wasn't going to change that.

                        Ford was king up until the mid-fifties, and then it was "Long live the General". Those that were young enough to "think outside the box" were changing to Chevies, and once they changed, they never went back.

                        Comment

                        • Clem Z.
                          Expired
                          • January 1, 2006
                          • 9427

                          #27
                          that 53 chevy i bought

                          i put on dual carbs,split exhaust manafold with duals,dual point nash distributor,mcgurk cam. since this engine did not have full pressure oil system i managed to toss out a couple of rods. the service manager at the chevy dealership was a friends dad so they put a 261 cu in truck short block under warranty. . this block had full pressure oil system and i had a lot of fun blowing off all those new overhead valve fords that came out in 1954. when the V-5 chevy came out in 1955 i bought a bel aire with a power pac and installed the 195 HP corvette cam and continued to blow off the fords even my buddies 57 312 with dual 4 barrels rated at 270 HP. those were the good old days when we raced to make money to make the car payments.

                          Comment

                          • Mike M.
                            NCRS Past President
                            • May 31, 1974
                            • 8365

                            #28
                            Re: PS

                            how many old timers out there know the artist who had # 1 hit with "hot rod Lincoln"? hint: the band also recorded Momma Hated Diesels.mike

                            Comment

                            • Mike M.
                              NCRS Past President
                              • May 31, 1974
                              • 8365

                              #29
                              Re: Thanks For The Memories, Clem

                              Agree that the sb chevy became top gun about 1955 but disagee on the flatheads being kings the first half of that decade.The olds rockets and 331 caddys would put the flatheads back on their towbars. Mikie

                              Comment

                              • James F.
                                Very Frequent User
                                • December 1, 1985
                                • 596

                                #30
                                Re: PS- Commander Cody *NM*

                                Comment

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