Decision to make: What paint to use?

[Clare Carpenter]

I'm hoping to have my body in the shop in the next few weeks. What paint to use is a question I keep going back and forth on. The shop, a well known Corvette facility, recommends a modern paint like enamel for the advantages it offers. They will paint it in lacquer if that's what I specify. I like the look of acrylic lacquer when it's applied and prepared properly but not it's long term durability. Enamel is more durable and I have seen enamel paint jobs where I couldn't tell the difference. Each paint has advantages and disadvantages but it seems to me that the durability of enamel is more attractive than any advantages lacquer offers. I am well aware of what the NCRS TIM&JG specifies and what the deduction is for originality points for the "obvious" use of enamel or clear coats.

I have participated in the judging process with a friend on his mid-year which was painted in acrylic lacquer but had a little clear mixed in the last couple of coats. His car was checked for "color". As I recall, the judge asked him where it would be okay to rub for the color test. He pointed the judge to an area below the light line on the lower rear fender, where the painter had made an allowance just for this purpose. Since it gave some color up to the rubbing test he received full credit. I am some cars have been judged with paints other than lacquer and have passed with either full or partial deducts.

I know the decision is ultimately mine and it's my money that's being spent. I plan to participate in the judging process and I also plan to drive and use my car when finished, albeit on a limited basis. My mind isn't made up on which direction to go. I'd like to hear from those who have been there and done that.

[Michael Jones]

Re: Decision to make: What paint to use?

Clare:

Your decision is one I've considered myself. To make a long story short, I ultimately opted for a modern clear coat finish. My reason was largely based on the durability factor. The modern paints are so much more impervious to chips from road stones, an inadvertant scratch by a show spectator, etc. And if you're going to drive yours like I do mine, you'll be happier with harder paint. I also made the decision to go with Coker radials on my '57 rather than the correct bias tires. I see this as a similar decision: a person who would opt for bias tires over radials might similarly opt for lacquer.

Mike

[William C.]

Re: Decision to make: What paint to use?

I just had my '65 stipped an painted with Laquer this past year. The Lacquer on the car was at least 20 years old and was not perceptibly different in conditin than when I bought the car (presentable but not "show") I can't see any durability issues with lacquer in a lightly driven car, amd scratch repair, if need is much easier than with modern paints. It's your decision, but I think the "disadvantages" of using original paints are greatly overdone, ususlly by paint shops who are simply not familiar with them.

[Clare Carpenter]

Do you plan to participate in Flight Judging?

Mike, Just curious if you have already or plan to participate in Flight Judging? On your observation of bias belted vs. radials. I don't think too many owners drive their cars any distance with bias belted tires, whether showing or otherwise. Points awarded for driving to a judging event, depending on distance, would probably offset any deductions received on originality and condition for having radials installed.

[Michael Jones]

Re: Do you plan to participate in Flight Judging?

I drive the car for pleasure 3-4 times a week and to car shows in the summer. I don't foresee any flight judging but I am curious as to how this mostly original car would score. I purchased it from an individual who was going through a nasty divorce and had to liquidate his "personal collection" of, as I recall, about 8-10 cars mostly of early Corvette and Ferrari varieties. The car was never driven in the 12 years he owned it. Needless to say, it's being well used these days!

Michael

[Roy B.]

Re: HHHmmmmmmmm What paint to use?

I don't have any of my Corvettes judged ( that's me) and I read so many discussions about paint and tires to meet NCRS. My thinking is to paint a vett using the better two part paint and because the judge needs to ask the owner where they can rub for paint , I would have a painter use lacquer under the bottom rear fender . This area would just be for judging to get that %100.
I also would have two sets of wheels and tire. One set of Radio's for driving and a set of mounted repro's which are OK for driving to NCRS meets.
Also better headlight bulbs , but carry the original type.
I would use the Optoma battery for every day use and change it again for meets.
Now what would be wrong with that?

[Gene M.]

Don't be trying to fool the judges.............

Roy,
I'm sure you would find the judging (judges) are a little to sharp to not notice a clear coat paint job over an original lacquer. If the upper body panels are not as typically seen or as normal there will be deductions on those areas of the paint. So owners should show paint rubbed on rag in questioned areas. Door jams and lower fenders is not going to cut it.

[Roy B.]

Re: Don't be trying to fool the judges............

OK! Many judges do have trouble determining some painted Corvettes, if a judge told me where he wonted me to rub paint OFF my Corvette I would think I have the determination as to where to take paint OFF. That is what I understood. And again if he or I did show paint removal , is NCRS going to have a meeting and force some one to rub paint OFF where they wont? How does some one keep paint from wearing off if they show their Corvette year after year? This is all just a comment for discussion only, nothing more.

[Wayne W.]

Re: Don't be trying to fool the judges............

If you refuse to submit do you loose your license for one year or two?

[Gene M.]

Re: Don't be trying to fool the judges............

A correct lacquer paint job will show paint on the rag almost as soon as polish hits the paint. No body is going to request excessive rubbing. Now if the paint is cleared the effort to show paint on the rag may become excessive if the owner is determined to show paint on an incorrectly painted car. The owner always has the option to decline, decision is simple deduction is made. A good judge can generally show the owner areas on the car that demonstrate the incorrect finish. I do not have enough time/space to cover all the tell tales, but they would be shown to the owner as the sheets are reviewed. Another reason the OJ judging program has worked in teaching the "details" of judging.

[Dick G.]

Re: Don't be trying to fool the judges............

I painted my 57 corvette acrylic lacquer 7 years ago. Lacquer is a poor quality paint. I don't think enamel and single stage urethane will rub off without getting aggressive. Furthermore, if you do get some color off onto the rag, is it lacquer or some non-factory applied type paint. I know the JM says no clear, but in my opinion it is time for a vote on this overdone requirement. Are we having fun fighting over this issue. Has the NCRS ever considered a national membership vote on this hotly debated topic similar to the way we elect officers. Just my opinion! Thanks!

[Clare Carpenter]

What to paint the garage floor got more responses!

The thread on what to paint the garage floor got more responses that this thread requesting feedback on what paint makes the most sense for a Corvette restoration, given a compromise between judging goals and the desire to use the best materials available for the job. I'm not surprised; I kind of figured that some might be hesitant to state publicly that they used something other than acrylic lacquer on their car, especially if they've passed judging.

Dick, are you saying that you wished you'd have used something other than lacquer when you painted your car 7 years ago? Have you been disappointed with the way it's held up vs. the use you've given your vehicle? Have you had it judged? Did that play into your decision to use lacquer?

I'm not sure the NCRS needs to change the rules. However, given the realities of today and the availability of better finishes perhaps judging requirements re: paint could be loosened somewhat, and perhaps they have. I haven't been through the judging process with my own car, and when I did it with a friend on is car, it was several year's ago.

To do a restoration that is a true factory representation of the way GM actually built the Corvette in that time frame, we'd need to use asphalt based chassis black out on the frame with no primer base, instead of a urethane, enamel or whatever; on C1's we'd need to spray over some chassis inspection marks and some underhood plated parts; we'd need to have our chrome done to OEM standards and not "show quality" as most do; we'd need to leave the gaps, waviness, and other imperfections in the bodies and certainly make sure to underspray lower panels and well as overspray everywhere else. The rules are clearly spelled out and we know what we need to do to totally conform. In fact, it's easier that way because it's black and white with no guesswork. If you do all this and everything else is correct you could end up with a 99-point car. That is the way it should be. The downside is that most of the cars that get done this way are trailer queens and are rarely if ever driven.

Someone that chooses to "over restore" their Corvette shouldn't be afraid to have their car judged or be kept from Top Flighting their car if everything else is correct and the over restoration is minimized to using a better grade of materials, with the goal of mimicking the factory appearance as closely as possible. Thanks to all that have responded. Keep 'em coming.

[Chuck S.]

Re: What to paint the garage floor got more respon

Clare, I think the rules have already changed and some haven't gotten the message yet. I have almost responded a couple of times, but thought it better to stay out of this perpetual argument.

As I understand the rules, the finish is to be judged according to how close it APPEARS to be acrylic lacquer and not whether it IS acrylic lacquer. If the judges can't tell the difference between what they are seeing on the car and acrylic lacquer, they shouldn't be allowed to request solvent wipes or polish wipes from owners to bolster their self-confidence. Not about fooling the judges...there it is, judge it as you see it.

Shall judges also dip their fingers into the master cylinders to see if its silicone fluid? How about sniffing and feeling the motor oil to see it it's synthetic? How about the gasoline in the tank?...it's sure not the same stuff anymore. JMHO.

[Mike Cobine]

This sounds more like

the engine stamping issue and how do you define "appears". If paint "appears correct, then should they go microscopic to determine elsewise? Should there be chemical and physical testing? What tools should be involved? How deep do you test?

Let's face it, you cannot get original paint anymore. Today's laquer is not 1966 laquer or 1957 laquer. So you should just automatically deduct every car that has been repainted, period.

No one seems to have a problem with reproduction dash pads, seat covers, tires, brake pads, radiators, and a host of soft parts. But paint and engine blocks seem to draw an incredible and disportionate amount of attention and hence reflection in money. But why give so much attention to the originality of the paint, if the entire interior is non-original (reproduction)?

And with all the attention paid to some parts, why doesn't anyone pay attention to the original oil in each Corvette when it left, the original gasoline, and such?

And while all this goes on, NCRS sells 375 hp model Fuel Injection engines that have '69 up accessory mount style heads and non-rear crankcase breather blocks. How many points deducted for that?