Top Flight Point Loss

[Bill Kremer]

In a previous post I indicated I am cosidering buying a 65 Fuellie. Seller says it is a recent NCRS Top Flight @ regional. Has NCRS blue ribbon and judging sheets. It currently has off road exhaust system (differences?). I would like to have side pipes installed. Good/Bad idea. Points loss. Please explain for a novice like me.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Top Flight Point Loss

Bad idea.

You have to make the transformation perfectly if you ever intend to have it judged again. This includes removing the rocker panel tabs (hangers) as well as cutting the fiberglass in the front of the rear wheel wells. In addition, if a judge ever goes under your car and detects evidence of UTC exhaust EVER having been installed (there are other ways to tell), you lose all the exhaust points. That's a big hit.

If you just want the sound, try the chambered UTC exhaust. I have a set from MidAmerica. It has the same side exhaust sound but the pipes run under the car (UTC) like they're supposed to. You'd still suffer a judging hit, but not nearly as bad. A lot easier to convert back to factory configuration with about an hour of lift time, too.

Patrick

[John L.]

Re: Top Flight Point Loss

Huge Risk in Point Loss -- One of the challenges is that you have to re-create the bird cage slots that were originally created with a press. The dimensions are in the AIM. A judge will get under your car to inspect these and other areas like ground strap holes, rear muffler hangar area and more. If you are going to continue to have the car judged - I would reconsider. If you are not going to have it judged -- heck it is your car, do what pleases you.

[Mike Swanson]

Re: Top Flight Point Loss

Patrick,

Not to sound too ignorant but...Can you please give me some tell tale signs to check to see if my '67 L79 Coupe came with FACTORY side exhaust? I just ordered the TIM&JG but thought maybe you could give me some things to look for in advance.

Thanks as always to all for your excellent info.

Mike

[Patrick H.]

Re: Top Flight Point Loss

Mike,

Off the top of my head (there are other items I'm sure I'll forget):

1. SE cars had fiberglass cutouts performed on the rear wheel well ahead just above the SE tip. See Restorer for pictures in old articles.
2. SE cars were not built with the tabs welded in place to hold rocker panels.
3. Rear valence panel.
4. Splash shileds on SE cars should not have rubber strips on them, as the rubber burned.
5. SE cars will not have grounding straps, or more imprtantly, evidence of prior installation of grounding straps, along the midline of the car where the old UTC exhaust lived.
6. SE cars should not have evidence of mufflers having been mounted in the rear of the car. Imagine this: National Convention. Nicely installed SE on a big block 67. Unfortunately the frame made it really obvious that mufflers used to be attached in back. Big deduct.
7. "No" Ionia (AOSmith) bodies were built with side exhaust. While I have not seen any definitive paperwork on this, I understand why it would be true. I'd hate to try and pass off an Ionia body as a SE car without some very good paperwork and proof.

Remember, since so many cars have been converted to SE, buyers and judges are MUCH more likely to scrutinize your car and the SE installation. In addition, reversing the process, especially adding the fiberglass back to the body, is not the easiest conversion.

Patrick

[Wayne M.]

If VIN under 09xxx, forget the conversion *NM*

[Patrick H.]

Good point. *NM*