C3-Mechanical done, starting bodywork, need advice

[Scott Marshall]

[Patrick H.]

Re: C3-Mechanical done, starting bodywork, need ad

If you're worried about the value of your car with any evidence of fiberglass repair visible on the backside, you might as well forget the idea of hand laid panels. They look like one HUGE fiberglass repair on the back side.

If it were my car, I'd ask around and find out who, if anyone, in my area worked on Corvettes. Better yet, I'd ship it over to Jerry Bramlett as he's the closest one I can think of to you, and pick up the body when he's done.

If you want to repair the car yourself, I'd recommend you get a copy of the Eckler's book on fiberglass repair as well as the video. Then, go ahead and repair your panels. If you've never done this type of work, replacing them will test your patience and your marriage. Unless a panel has a large tear or crack, I'd repair it. Find a mentor if at all possible. I'm sure someone around your area has restored a Corvette previously.

Realize, too, that I HATE sanding, have restored my own car previously, but do not ever want to do body work again. Some things are better off being done by professionals. The guy I use finds sanding therapeutic. Good for him; I don't have to put him on blood pressure medicine then. In addition, I want to paint a car only once. I'm happy to make sure it gets done right the first time.

That reminds me of a 72 I looked at for sale about 5 years ago. The seller's father had just died and the son was selling Dad's cars. Dad had bought the 72 a few years back, and I was told just finished the body and paint before his death. Despite the poor bodywork, blotchy, runny metallic paint and glassed-in rear exhaust panel (yet still with rear-exit exhaust) the son just couldn't understand how all his Dad's work on a car that cost him $4500 could result in a car that I suggested was worth about... $4500. Try not to end up in the same situation with regard to your own car.

Good luck! I'm sure that you'll get plenty of advice.

Patrick

[Bill Wilkins]

Re: C3-Mechanical done, starting bodywork, need ad

I found a shop that let me do all the prep work and he did the spraying. I thought that would be easier. After spending about 100 hours sanding that car by hand, because every sander I found was too big for all the curves on that car, I wonder if it wouldn't have been better to let a pro do it all. I had a problem with tiny little blisters all the car and the paint had to be sanded all the way down to glass then start over. I also didn't use the guide coat as well as I should have and really regretted it after I had to sand the first expensive coat of paint. You MUST take the whole guide coat COMPLETELY off with ONE grade of sandpaper. Otherwise you will see shadows in your expensive paint. After it was all over I am really proud of it because I did most of the work but for the months that it took just getting ready for paint I really didn't like my car.

Good luck with yours.

Bill

[Wayne P.]

Re: C3-Mechanical done, starting bodywork, need ad

I agree with the above responses, plus neither you or a competent shop will complete it by your deadline. This is not a part of your project that should be rushed.

[Tony Merendino]

Re: C3-Mechanical done, starting bodywork, need ad

It would seem to me that if you were to replace all those panels with new fiberglass the cost and time invested would never be recoverable unless you had a rare car. If it is a smallblock or a car with limited documentation you could be throwing good money after bad. If your main concern is the investment value of the car you need to think real hard and sit down with pencil and paper to see what your results are expected to be.

There are a lot of people who spend $30-40K on a restoration and when finished have a beautiful car worth $20K. If investment is your goal make sure you start with the right car that is fully documented.

[Chuck S.]

Re: C3-Mechanical done, starting bodywork, need ad

Scott, if you want to maximize the resale value of your Corvette, repair the original panels if possible. As Patrick said, if a panel is cracked or torn, it's probably best to repair it...If it has pieces missing (or areas previously filled with resin and mat), then replacement with a press-molded panel is probably the best way to go.

Hand-laid panels will absolutely kill your value where the back side is visible. If the damage is great enough to require panel replacement, press-molded is the only way to go in my opinion. In some cases where the damage is heavy but localized, it may be possible to obtain a partial panel to make a graft repair. If you are patient, as you say you are, and have used tinted resin, you can sand the back side of the repair smooth, making detection almost impossible.

As you describe your personality traits, I would say you are a perfect candidate for doing the repairs yourself. Read the book, read the labels, buy a grinder, and rock-and-roll. If you screw up the first try, you can always grind off the whole mess and start over. If you are a fast learner, you will be making better-than-professional level repairs in a short period of time.

The Ecklers book is an excellent reference, but a recent thread indicated that the book is out of print. Some recommend the Ecklers videos. I haven't seen them, but primarily you need to know the basics on preparation of the repair area, and application of the resin and mat. The book has a lot a coverage on specific panel replacement, entire front end replacement, flare elimination, etc., that you probably won't need, so the videos may have enough info for you. The "glas-ra" books have also been recommended...check the archives for the previous thread.

[Scott Marshall]

Re: C3-Mechanical done, starting bodywork, need ad

Thanks Chuck.
The damaged panels on the car are the original pressmolded panels. The repairs were made probably 20 years ago or more. It looks terrible. Like someone applied the resin, then wadded up the matt, and just stuck it to the back of the panel. Some of it just looks like caked on mud built up in the front of the fenderwells. I received an email from a member that said to use NOS panels if possible. Do you know where to get them? I was looking through a Corvette Central Catalog and became a little concerned when I read their notice which stated that "It is normal for these panels to have chips, scratches, and even minor cracks when received. This is considered to be normal and is not a reason for parts replacement." I want to get my panels from a reliable source. I do have the Glas-Ra book and I am going to get the Eckler's book.
Scott

[Patrick H.]

Alternative panel source

Scott,

One alternative is used panels. Virtually enything from the firewall back is relatively easy to find and not horribly expensive. I've seen complete rear clips for a few hundred dollars. The front end pieces, however, are more difficult to find and more expensive (i.e. a few thousand). Most cars and Corvettes are hit in the front, so a "totalled" or parts car Corvette with an intact front is not a common entity.

I'd still have the car looked over by a professional, but you know that. I've seen some amazing repairs done to fiberglass, no matter what the original piece looked like. Remember that especially in the wheelwells you will be applying blackout, so some non-original appearance can be covered.

Good luck!

Patrick

[Chuck S.]

Re: C3-Mechanical done, starting bodywork, need ad

Scott, I think NOS panels will be hard to find and expensive when you find them. This is great advice, but hard to execute these days, and maybe justifiable only for the most highly-valued cars.

For C3 press-molded panels, I would go direct to a known source: "The Corvette Image" (they have a website, use your browser). They can also provide you with adhesive and resin that looks "factory". One of the disadvantages of using new press-molded panels versus repairing the originals is that the originals will be "textured" on the backside near the bonds (factory sandblast prep for bonding). It is hard to duplicate this texturing where the backside is visible.

VERY IMPORTANT: Depending on your model year, you will have determine if you are dealing with polyester based fiberglass or SMC (sheet molded composite). Some model years will have BOTH types of panels. Repair methods and materials HAVE TO BE slightly different. Polyester based fiberglass will be dark charcoal gray with visible fiberglass strands curling around in the surface...SMC is a uniform lighter gray with NO visible strands.

The chip, scratch, crack disclaimer has arisen out of the shipping companies' ability to damage even the most heavily armored packages. It's a CYA statement to keep the vendors from replacing panels that have a low probability of arriving without some kind of superficial damage. Small cratches and chips are easily repaired...just add it the long list of other preparation work. I would have a little trouble swallowing cracks in a brand new panel paid for with genuine US dollars.

Original panels (and I presume service replacement panels if early enough) will have Rockwell date labels embedded in the surface resin. Typically these labels are not easy to see on the finished car. Some are covered by black out...others will require the observer to know where they are located, and get under the car to see them. These labels are not generally an issue in judging. Original panels will also have part numbers and manufacture dates embossed on the backside, but this are often hard to find.

It sounds like your car has a repair typical by a professional bodyman who would rather be "doing it" with steel. The first step in determining the extent of the damage is to strip the paint, take a grinder and grind off this "mud" until you find the original fiberglass base (remove no more original fiberglass than absolutely necessary). Then, you will be able to see what you are dealing with, and make the decision to replace or repair the panel.

Take the front lower valance as an example: Damage in this area is typical. If it is cracked, it is very repairable. The typical bodyman would rather throw some resin and mat on a crack with minimal preparation, and trust his skill at obscuring the evidence with bondo. If properly prepared and laminated, cracks in this area can be repaired and sanded smooth to original thickness such that is nearly impossible to discern (time, sweat, and patience). There is a small flange on the bottom that is going to really try your patience.

If pieces are missing, then it's a judgement call...I would be tempted to try and rebuild it with resin and mat if the damage is limited to small areas. If you do it properly, it will look original and it will be just as strong as it was originally. You have to compare the time/work to repair against replacing the panel. If you try to repair the panel and you aren't happy with it, you can always revert to Plan B of replacing the panel. Take a look: if it's an early C3, there will be bonding strips on the inside near the parking lights. On the 70 AIM, these bonding strips are visible in UPC 11/13.

[Scott Marshall]

Re: C3-Mechanical done, starting bodywork, need ad

Hi Chuck,
Have you done some bodywork of this type before? Unfortunatly, because I work out of town and live in a rural area there is not a lot of opportunity to get hands on help or advice. The reason I decided to replace the panels was because it seemed that every panel that had damage had damage in multiple areas. The hood surround for instance has unrepaired damage around the left headlight opening, around the front emblem mounnt, and then the typical bumps from the headlight support rivets. This board has pretty much been my only source of information and help. If I was home I could post a few pics of my project.
Scott

[Chuck S.]

Scott, You Have Mail. *NM*