Axle ratio inpact

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  • Jack H.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • April 1, 1990
    • 9893

    #16
    Re: Axle ratio inpact

    Of course, my '65 BB has M21 equivalent with 1st gear having 2.2 ratio and the '71 SB has M20 with its 2.5 first gear. The brute native torque profile of the 396 with it's 4.56 rear has absolutely no problema pulling out of the hole. But with earlier SB's too much gear reduction can make 'em sputter & grunt coming off the line.

    This is another area that can be 'played' with. Instead of changing out rear ratios, folks can opt to tinker with the tranny (especially if it needs an overhaul to start with). You won't change the final drive gear (1:1), but you can easily get the effect of a taller rear coming out of the hole with a less agressive first gear (making M21 into M20 equivalent) AND this preserves integrity of the speedo gear.

    On the other hand, it's possible to go the wrong way with a rear end. Fellow club member has '65 396 that's in full drag 'dress' for use at the strip. Factory original motor (one of the cars in the Noland Adams '65 owner survey) sits in the garage while a replacement 396 'lives' under the hood. This motor is built to the 'hilt' (roller rockers, ported heads, dry ice cooled fuel lines, full race electric fuel pump) and dynos at 640 HP altitude UNcorrected in Evergreen, CO (almost 7000 feet).

    Owner had to 'struggle' to make car pull 3rd Flight for his Founders Award prerequisite. For completion of Founders, car has to be driven at least 500 miles in caravan on the National Road Tour. Member 'dreaded' the cross country drive in a drag strip optimized BB with 4.11 rear end, M21 tranny, and an engine that doesn't smooth out until you pull past 3500 RPM.

    So, he pulled the 4.11 rear and tossed in a 3.36. Found it was 'too much' for the tricked out power plant and tall first gear. Car was prone to stalling -- not 'cool' in a polite group caravan.... So, the 3.36 has just been changed out for a 3.55. This seems to 'squeak' by. But, it will be 'truth time' in a few weeks when we set off for Sun Valley!

    Comment

    • Jack H.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • April 1, 1990
      • 9893

      #17
      Re: Axle ratio inpact

      Of course, my '65 BB has M21 equivalent with 1st gear having 2.2 ratio and the '71 SB has M20 with its 2.5 first gear. The brute native torque profile of the 396 with it's 4.56 rear has absolutely no problema pulling out of the hole. But with earlier SB's too much gear reduction can make 'em sputter & grunt coming off the line.

      This is another area that can be 'played' with. Instead of changing out rear ratios, folks can opt to tinker with the tranny (especially if it needs an overhaul to start with). You won't change the final drive gear (1:1), but you can easily get the effect of a taller rear coming out of the hole with a less agressive first gear (making M21 into M20 equivalent) AND this preserves integrity of the speedo gear.

      On the other hand, it's possible to go the wrong way with a rear end. Fellow club member has '65 396 that's in full drag 'dress' for use at the strip. Factory original motor (one of the cars in the Noland Adams '65 owner survey) sits in the garage while a replacement 396 'lives' under the hood. This motor is built to the 'hilt' (roller rockers, ported heads, dry ice cooled fuel lines, full race electric fuel pump) and dynos at 640 HP altitude UNcorrected in Evergreen, CO (almost 7000 feet).

      Owner had to 'struggle' to make car pull 3rd Flight for his Founders Award prerequisite. For completion of Founders, car has to be driven at least 500 miles in caravan on the National Road Tour. Member 'dreaded' the cross country drive in a drag strip optimized BB with 4.11 rear end, M21 tranny, and an engine that doesn't smooth out until you pull past 3500 RPM.

      So, he pulled the 4.11 rear and tossed in a 3.36. Found it was 'too much' for the tricked out power plant and tall first gear. Car was prone to stalling -- not 'cool' in a polite group caravan.... So, the 3.36 has just been changed out for a 3.55. This seems to 'squeak' by. But, it will be 'truth time' in a few weeks when we set off for Sun Valley!

      Comment

      • P Terry #6573

        #18
        Re: Axle ratio inpact

        My 2 cents worth...I have a 58 with 3.70 and a 61 with 3.55 (formerly a 4.11), both cars are close ratio 4-speed with the 245HP engine. Both work pretty good on the highway and I would not change what they are. The 58 is a lot more fun to drive in town though.

        Comment

        • P Terry #6573

          #19
          Re: Axle ratio inpact

          My 2 cents worth...I have a 58 with 3.70 and a 61 with 3.55 (formerly a 4.11), both cars are close ratio 4-speed with the 245HP engine. Both work pretty good on the highway and I would not change what they are. The 58 is a lot more fun to drive in town though.

          Comment

          • Doug Flaten

            #20
            Re: Axle ratio inpact

            As Joe mentioned, the close ratio compounds the weak torque of the 283. Jack mentions changing the transmission gearing which is what I did on my '61 which had a mild 283, close ratio Muncie and a 3:55 rear axle when I bought it. I built up a 270 HP engine and the car was doggy and felt like I was starting in 2nd gear all of the time (then again I didn't need to shift out of 1st until 70 mph). The Muncie needed a rebuild and I bought a T-10 with a higher numerical gearing. Driveability is much better in town. When a get around to the rebuild, I may replace the rear end with a 3:70 if the 3:55 is in bad shape

            Comment

            • Doug Flaten

              #21
              Re: Axle ratio inpact

              As Joe mentioned, the close ratio compounds the weak torque of the 283. Jack mentions changing the transmission gearing which is what I did on my '61 which had a mild 283, close ratio Muncie and a 3:55 rear axle when I bought it. I built up a 270 HP engine and the car was doggy and felt like I was starting in 2nd gear all of the time (then again I didn't need to shift out of 1st until 70 mph). The Muncie needed a rebuild and I bought a T-10 with a higher numerical gearing. Driveability is much better in town. When a get around to the rebuild, I may replace the rear end with a 3:70 if the 3:55 is in bad shape

              Comment

              • Jack H.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • April 1, 1990
                • 9893

                #22
                Re: Axle ratio inpact

                Paul reinforces my original suggestion to leave 'er as she is AND you're getting good skinny from a pro....

                Comment

                • Jack H.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • April 1, 1990
                  • 9893

                  #23
                  Re: Axle ratio inpact

                  Paul reinforces my original suggestion to leave 'er as she is AND you're getting good skinny from a pro....

                  Comment

                  • Larry

                    #24
                    Re: Axle ratio inpact

                    I have a '59 245 with close ratio 4-speed and 3.70 gears. I live in CA and the revs are a bit too high on our freeways. On a long trip the noise and the urge to shift into a higher gear wears you out. Given a choice and the same conditions I would go to a different ratio,or a larger tire may be just enough. Twenty responses and twenty different opinions, that what's so good about this site. Good Luck

                    Comment

                    • Larry

                      #25
                      Re: Axle ratio inpact

                      I have a '59 245 with close ratio 4-speed and 3.70 gears. I live in CA and the revs are a bit too high on our freeways. On a long trip the noise and the urge to shift into a higher gear wears you out. Given a choice and the same conditions I would go to a different ratio,or a larger tire may be just enough. Twenty responses and twenty different opinions, that what's so good about this site. Good Luck

                      Comment

                      • Loren

                        #26
                        Re: Axle ratio inpact

                        I had a '63 FI CV that came with a 4.11; after driving my coupe with 4.11 to Bend in 1982, I was not going to do that again. I replaced the trans with a wide ratio and found a 63 3.55 positraction. Never regretted it - nice cruise and plenty of pop from the light

                        Comment

                        • Loren

                          #27
                          Re: Axle ratio inpact

                          I had a '63 FI CV that came with a 4.11; after driving my coupe with 4.11 to Bend in 1982, I was not going to do that again. I replaced the trans with a wide ratio and found a 63 3.55 positraction. Never regretted it - nice cruise and plenty of pop from the light

                          Comment

                          • Craig Freeman

                            #28
                            Re: Axle ratio inpact

                            I am definitely going with the 3.70 setup and feeling good with that choice. By the way my 60 has a 4-spd but not original. The 4-spd is a mystery in itself. I will post a note (Mystery 4-spd)on it and welcome any comments. Thank you all for the information I have received.

                            Craig

                            Comment

                            • Craig Freeman

                              #29
                              Re: Axle ratio inpact

                              I am definitely going with the 3.70 setup and feeling good with that choice. By the way my 60 has a 4-spd but not original. The 4-spd is a mystery in itself. I will post a note (Mystery 4-spd)on it and welcome any comments. Thank you all for the information I have received.

                              Craig

                              Comment

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