Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on TV?

[Steve Antonucci]

Today, I saw a 30 minute program on TV in which the Barrett-Jackson
organization was featured looking for "Muscle Cars" that they could purchase,
prep, then sell at their auctions. One of the feature cars was a 340 Cuda that
they wanted to get for 20K. The seller wanted 22-25K, so no one budged. If
the past BJ auction taught us anything ( i.e 69 Z/28 going for 112K ), these
BJ guys will prep ( paint, decals, and other cosmetics ) this car and try to
double or triple their return. Who's kidding who? Give the seller what he
asked for it. BJ will clean up with the fools bidding on these cars. I did
get the distinct impression that BJ was going to turn that rather plain 340
Cuda into "something special". You know, sort of like the Nash Bridges Hemi
Cuda that wasn't really a hemi car ( actually 340 ci ) and it went for 135K.

In another segment, and this one killed me, Craig Barrett was reviewing a
"fully restored" 65 GTO. Only problems were: Over restored ( too good ),
a 69 GTO hood tach ( on a 65? ), tri-power induction ( originally a 4-bbl )
and an "upgraded" interior. What the heck does that mean - upgraded?
According to Craig, the interior "could have been ordered in the car when
original". With that logic, I'm going to turn my SS 396 69 Camaro into a ZL/1
because it "could have" been ordered from the factory with these options.
Does anyone else see the danger here? The lines are getting more and more
fuzzy now. Pretty soon, we won't be able to find original cars for sale at BJ
because the clones get better returns. Case in point is that 69 yellow Z/28
( JL-8, etc. ) that went for big bucks at the last BJ auction. Several people
mentioned that is was a "bogus" car.

What I'm really trying to express is that I always thought that the Barrett-
Jackson auction stood for something special. I've heard that one out of ten
cars reviewed actually make it to auction. So what does this all say when
Craig Barrett reviews a bogus tri-power 65 GTO and telling the viewer that
the car is very well restored. Very well restored according to who? I think
the answer is an unknowledgeable buyer. Am I being too critical?
Steve

[Terry D.]

Re: Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on

Steve

Yes, I saw the show and had the same questions as you. What it shows is they are more concerned with making money than keeping cars original. The only way this will stop is for knowledgable people to NOT participate in their auctions and NOT watch their programs. Hard for most people to do. Sooner or later the buyers of these bogus cars will try to sell them, sadly as a famous man once said " there is a sucker born everyday". Does make you appreciate an original car all the more though.

Terry

[Larry S.]

Re: Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on

With more and more investment car collectors coming into the arena now.And some of the clone cars being labled as clone cars and still selling for insane prices.It only re enfources the importance of what we all know If it doesnot have documents then assume it not a real car.I followed one car at the atlantic city auction that change hands 4 times starting on thrusday night with over a 18,000.00 price increase from the first guy to purchase it to the last guy who bought it on sunday morning.the fellow who purchased it sunday allready had a buyer on it and was going to flip it for a six grand profit.This was a car scheduled to go across the auction but the deals were made before it was off the trailer out side.

I have a freind who allthought he hates to be called it "a wheeler dealer" and he was explaining all the good high dollar stuff is being sold thru the grape vine.

None of the good cars are changing hands out in the open any more.the majority of the cars going across the auction block belong at the auction for the joe smoes like me to bid on.

And when and if something good comes out at an auction all the big gun wheeler dealers are all over them running the prices way up in the prices range because its the only good cars out there.

And as he always says you always got to have a good inventory in your stable.This is a very good freind of mine who some of you folks have probably met because he now goes to all big cars hows.vettes,ford,chrysler, ACCA shows.any ways he will go to a show and find cars that take top honors.He then ask's the owners what they would need to sell the car.You would be suprised how many cars he purchases the day a fellow finally gets his top flight award.he figures once a fellow bring his car to the top of it feilds what left for him to do with it.He said up untill 5 years ago deals used to fall into his lap all he needed was money and there was more excellent cars changing hands then you could belive.Now he said he really has to work real hard to shake a good car out of the trees.

And please dont get confused BJ is all about making money.They are not doing it for the love of cars its all about the money.You know those 1979 trans am that I had always just looked at like it was a used car is now 25 years old and is considered a classic muscle car.Have you seen what these are selling for now?talk about a shocker

[Chuck S.]

Re: Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on

Larry, I concur with your thoughts about BJ and other auctions not being about preserving originality necessarily...it IS all about the money.

I went to the auction (Gold?) that followed BJ at Scottsdale this year, and as you said, clones are now being readily identified as such up front and schmucks couldn't wait to pay big bucks just to be proud to own one.

I kept mentally contrasting that with how Corvette counterfeiters go to such extreme measures to "clone" high dollar cars (restamping blocks etc.) that are undetectable, and nobody is stepping up to demean an auctioned Vette with the "clone" label. We complain about such activities in the Corvette hobby, but I suppose we should be very happy that the knowledge base is high enough for the majority of the Corvette market that "clones" will not fly without out and out fraud.

My conclusion on the car auction business was as you said...The only people stealing any money at these auctions is the auctioneers. Buying from someone outside of the auction scene will result in more money for both buyer and seller.

[Warren F.]

Re: Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on

I had an interesting experience with auctions in 2001. I had a '69 L78 SS Camaro convertible that was documented with the Chassis Broadcast copy and the original Sales Invoice from the dealership. The car was restored by Camaro Specialties in East Aurora, New York.

I had shown this car all over the country (enclosed trailer) dragging it nearly 15,867 miles thru 27 states in 63 days. At the end of this trip I had put approximately 3 miles on the car. The next 2 years I put another 11 miles on it. The car ended up in 9 hardbound books in full color plates, on the cover of Muscle Car Review and the center spread of 3 other car magazines, as well as its own muscle car trading card.

At the time, I didn't know who the high rollers were in the Camaro crowd. The car was to nice to drive ( the restoration shop said this was the nicest convertible they had ever seen, prior to restoration) so I was looking to sell it. I chose an auction, they said this car would get the publicity needed to bring the most money.

When I brought the car to the auction location (Muscle Sports auction at the Downtown Marriot in Monterey, next weekend of NCRS convention) I saw that the other cars were no where near the caliber of quality that mine was. I stayed with the car for the 2 day preview, answering questions from the prospective buyers and lookers, and showing the factory/dealership documentation and all the published books/magazines the car had been in. Several people told me that my car was way too nice for this auction, I was getting worried, that I had made a mistake consigning this car, many people made offers to me at this preview.

The auction co wanted the owners to drive the car from the preview location to the second floor of the Marriot hotel, this car had chambered exhaust and inside the ballroom it just rattled the entire place! The crowds surrounded the car and I had to climb out over the door as people were right up against the body completely surrounding the car. I barely made my way, away from the car, when the bidding got frantic and the whole thing was over in less than a minute!

I had set a reserve of $70,000, I remember that the bidding stalled at $71,000 and I thought that I was going to keep my baby. It turned out that the auction company had the right to relinquish their commission, and they sold it! I received $70,200 and they settled on $800.00 for their effort. It turned out that my Camaro was the star of this auction and a lot of other rare muscle did not sell (either too high reserve or no where near the bids). The auction co was frantic to meet expenses for this fancy event they put on, they said they spent nearly $160,000 on this event set up.

The auction co. said that my being by my car for the 2 day preview talking and promoting the car was the key, most other owners shipped the car to the auction or were no where to be found. Would I do it again? No way. The buyer ended up spending $85,000 to own this car with commission, sales tax, registration, etc.

I found out that I could have sold the car for more, by talking to the people who were looking at the car at the preview stage of the auction. It was an experience I will never forget!

[Chuck S.]

Re: Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on

Warren, the $800 you paid wasn't too bad...I guess your auctioneer hadn't made the big time yet.

I was astounded to learn that the combined buyer/seller commissions at the Scottsdale auction was 20%; 12% to the seller, and 8% to the buyer. Auctioneers are certainly doing their part to inflate the prices of cars. Not only that, but the rest of us non-bidding schmucks were paying $20 a head just to get in and gawk. Five bucks for a lemonade was just an annoyance; they would charge for the rest rooms, but I think that's against the law.

[Dave S.]

Re: Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on

Chuck,
I think your percentages are off. You may want to check their auction page or call them for the correct percentages. If my memory serves correctly they are 7% and 8%. The reserve and non reserve percentages are slightly different and the price range of the car may have an effect as well.

[Warren F.]

Re: Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on

Chuck:

The auction company was charging 8% sellers commission and 10% buyers premium. The first 16 cars thru were a no sale, with 160 consignments. Drew Alcazar was pretty nervous, with so many no sales.

[Dave S.]

Re: Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on

Warren,
You must be giving the Russo and Steele percentages. From the Barrett Jackson web page the percentages there are 8% seller and 8% buyer for most non reserve sales. Based on what I saw its a great deal for the seller.

[Warren F.]

Re: Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on

Dave:

Yes, I am. I was the only consigned vehicle that he did not charge the sellers percentage commission to.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on

Dave and Warren, I knew it wasn't BJ (I said the auction was AFTER BJ), but I wasn't sure of the auctioneer...it was Kruse International at Phoenix International Raceway on January 28-February 2, 2004.

The percentages I heard were from my buddy, who was a credentialed bidder, but I may have the percentages backwards (Does it make any sense that the buyer has to pay more than the seller?). I agree that the it probably makes a difference depending on the price range, reserve/non-reserve, and the city. (Scottsdale is rolling in dough, right? )

In any event, whether it is 8%/8%, or 8%/10%, or 12%/8% as I recalled, there is a substantial portion of the car price being collected by the auctioneer for simply getting the buyer and the seller together. No doubt, it creates a marketplace for both the seller (lots of serious buyer competetion) and the buyer (lots of nicer cars to choose from), but the price of this dating service is HIGH.

As an alternative, I am thinking that Carlisle or Bloomington might be the place to buy a nice Corvette cheaper than auctions, and the seller will get more money in his pocket too. This is JMHO, with no intent on breaking the dinner plate of Kruse, Barrett, et al, but gouging will be reduced when buyers and sellers start refusing to accept it. A lot of no-sales, like Warren mentioned, is symptomatic of people "wising up" and refusing to bear the pain.

[Jerry M.]

Re: Did anyone see the Barrett-Jackson program on

Let me see if I understand this. You guys are saying that becaise of the high prices brought at Barrett Jackson, when someone offers you three times what you think your car is worth, on principle your are going to insist that they pay you less. Is this correct? I can't envision that happening but if it does I applaud you.

[Roy B.]

Re: Barrett-Jackson" Lets be honest"

I've said this before on this forum and many may think I'm a SOB. But I have sold many Corvettes at Auctions and have always gotten more money with NO hassling. That is WHY I've always said I would NEVER try and sell a Corvette ,Ford or any other car to some one that is really a car Guru..
YES, I too would drive the seller crazy as many would, about nuts and bolts.(Unless it was a good deal).
That is why in "my opinion" Classic Corvette dealers sell %99 of their cars to new owners of Corvettes.
It's the same weather it's a Ford or Plymouth .I've gotten $61,000 for a Corvette that I would never get $40,000 from a Corvette ( over spray) Guru . That's a fact , weather any one admits it and I have proved this over and over.