63 A Front Suspension finishes

[Armand Salvatore]

Can someone clarify the finishes on a 63 front suspension? I see on page 139 and 140 where it addresses steering but do not see: A Arms, a arm shafts, bolts/ studs, bushing retainers, ball joints, lower nut plate and so on. Did I miss it in the judging manual or is there some other reference that adresses these areas in more detail.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

[Tom D.]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes

I think John Hinckley made a recent posting about this. It was specific to suspension assembly too. Try the search tool above.




MichiganNCRS.org

[Armand Salvatore]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes

NADA, nothing, not found. Any one know the answer?

[Duke W.]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes

Control arms gloss black - dipped. All hardware was natural except the bushing retainers may have had a phosphate coating.

Duke

[Armand Salvatore]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes

Thanks Duke. Were the cross shafts natural as well? When you say 'phosphate' coating can you explain.
Thanks again.
Sal

[Joe S.]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes

Based on the Judging Guide and on several books I reviewed (Nolan Adams and Richard Newton's) I painted the control arms and shafts (and bushings, caps and bolts) with a glossier black then the frame. Hardware natural, and spindles and knuckles should be unfinished natural cast (although I gave them a spritz).

I may not be 100% correct, but it looks good to me.

Many more pics on my website.




Joe's 63 FI Convertible

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes

Joe, you have it pretty close. In 63-67, the inner shafts, bushings, washers and bolts were painted gloss black, as an assembly with the control arm. This process changed some time in the 70's and from that point on, the shaft and related parts were not painted. You are also close on the rest of the spindle assembly, including backing plates. This unit was almost completely painted with chassis black. That's why original production backing plates are only black on the inboard side and natural on the shoe side. Service backing plates were dipped in 104 black. In 65, with the addition of disc brakes, the spindle paint was deleted for obvious reasons and all of the paint markings will/should appear.

Michael

[Duke W.]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes

No sure about the cross shafts, but I think they had some black paint. They would probably appear flat to semi-gloss because of the rough surface finish relative to the stamped steel control arms.

Phosphate coatings generally appear charcoal gray, but I think they can even have a greenish tint. They provide some corrosion protection, but not 40 years worth.

My experience as an observer judge is that judges do not deduct for "over restoration" of chassis fasteners, unless there is specfic information in the JG about the finish. Of course, this doesn't meet "chrome", but I think a majority of restored cars have zinc or cad plating on most chassis fasteners. Most of them were natural when new, but I don't think many, if any, points are deducted.

Michael and Joe offer good comments. The control arms were definitely more glossy than the frame when new as the asphalt based frame paint was basically flat relative to the enamel used to dip the control arms.

Duke

[Joe R.]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes/Joe/Michael

Michael,

Let's go a little further with Joe's 63 front end assembly.

Joe, your frame assy. looks great but here's a couple of tips on what "I" think should be correct.

1. Your springs should be natural and from the looks of the spring you should have a violet stripe painted by a 1" brush vertically.

2. The steering box should be natural or if you are trying to duplicate black out then everything should be painted black.

The steering box was natural with either a yellow or green paint stripe and with blackout, well it was either blacked completely or partially. Just depends on who was shooting the blackout that day. The stripes never went over the blackout.

Regards,

JR

P.S. Did I do a good job Michael?

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes

I agree that, at least for today, the judging isn't specifically indicating the black spindles and related items or the black shafts and related hardware but we're supposed to be restoring for tomorrow and I'm pretty sure this issue will be quite clear in the manual in the near future. I have some incredibly detailed pictures (somewhere) of several very low mileage untouched cars and they clearly show the totally rather glossy black control arms and shafts. The bushings and washers are also coated with the same paint. I have a whole pile of detailed pictures of the famous 1500 mile green/saddle 65 FI conv. before it was even washed after coming out of the barn in 1977. The entire control arm and components were dusty but obviously painted completely.
The incredible 7000 mile Krughoff California 63 FI coupe was probably one of the best examples. The spindles , backing plates and bolts still had their full load of chassis black and it was complete coverage. The entire sway bar even had a shot of chassis black on the top only with runs and drips at the bottom. The steering gear had a coat of it also, with a hint of color peeking out in a few spots. This would have been from what was called "final blackout" before the body was installed. It also included almost the entire exhaust system and the bottoms of the mufflers.

As the years passed in the 63-67 series, less and less final blackout was done but 63 and 64 were quite heavy. I still have a picture (somewhere) of the remains of the ventilation system in the St. Louis plant where the final blackout was done. It was dismantled in the 70's. Guess I'm going to have to make a real effort to find all these pictures one day soon. Lot of valuable info in them.

[Joe S.]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes/Joe/Michael

JR,

Thanks for the info. I believe the pic below shows the strip painted down the coil. This is a shot after I cleaned mine up. The strip looks white rather than violet, but after all this time and the cleaning process, they certainly could have been violet. Wonder what paint/color available today would match. I can still add teh strip.

On the streering box that's how it came from being rebuilt by VanSteel. I have since given it the whole back-out treatment and the yellow daub on it as per other pics I have seen. Hopefully I have it "close". Although you mention the strips did not go over the blackout.

Thanks,

Joe..




Joe's 63 FI Convertible

[Danny Pantuso]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes

Hi Guys, My point on the front suspension is upper& lower control arm are all black gloss shaft included, All bolts & nut were cadmium or zinc, upper balljoints had a tall tower not a short one,all steering links Idler arms,tierods, centre link, pitman arms & steering coupler, balljoints, spindals & arms are all natural steel unpaint, Steering box could be natural or painted gloss black with yellow marks, coil spring are natural with green marking tierod sleeves are paint semi gloss black, that my view, Danny

[Joe R.]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes/Joe/Michael

Joe,

Your 63 looks great and you should take great pride in the job and research you have done.

The front springs I mentioned with the violet stripe are standard suspension springs and yours are F-41 or whatever they called them in 63.

As far as the steering box--why would someone put an inspection mark on the box after the blackout? The inspection mark was probably to designate that it had been set properly or lubed. That would have been on the box after assembly and the blackout was the last thing done before the body drop.

The boxes you have seen with the inspection mark over the black cannot be correct according to the sequence of events at St. Louis. Maybe the blackout would not stick to the yellow or green paint used and popped or washed off. That will give all those fellows a back door to run thru.

Enjoyed your pics,

JR

[Robert Jorjorian]

Re: 63 A Front Suspension finishes/Joe/Michael

Joe
I think you have been doing a great job! I agree with Michael Hanson and J.Ray that original 63s had the shafts/bushings/caps and bolts painted black.Also the front brake drums attached to the hubs would also be chassis black (including the grease caps).
On low mileage cars you can clearly see where they used 2 or 3 lug nuts turned around backwards to hold the drum on while it was being painted. There were paint daubs on the front frame rails that matched the spring color on both Z06 and standard supension,suprisingly even as early as Oct 62 on standard suspension when Z06 production was minimum at best.This I beleive was used for the line to ID which spring to install.