mid year paint strip

[Michael H.]

Re: mid year paint strip

Jack,

I think you have the best method of all. Removing the factory primer with sand paper will do it faster but will also remove all traces of the original "character" of the fiberglass in the areas that were never sanded at the factory. I'm with you on the lacquer thinner/rag thing.

I think the thing that is most disturbing to me is seeing any restored Corvette that has body/paint that looks like a Mercedes and if the last of the material is sanded off, that's what you will wind up with. The fiberglas panels weren't smooth to begin with and they definitely shouldn't be after restoration. Very little sanding was done at the original source of the panels and ONLY THE PART OF THE BODY ABOVE THE BODY LINE WAS SANDED AT ST. LOUIS. If you ever get the chance to really study an original paint car, you would clearly see that most of the area below the body line is rough and in areas like inside the louver panels, you can see the raw outline of the fiberglass in the totally unsanded panel. The glass wasn't sanded in these areas and the primer wasn't either. If the last of the primer is removed with 220 paper, that grain or texture goes with it and you wind up with the Mercedes look. Everyone seems to believe that you have to sand the glass to get proper adhesion but if you think about it for a moment, you'll realize that the factory sure didn't sand all the primer and their paint stuck pretty well.

Someone could/should write an entire book on the correct way to strip and refinish a Corvette back to the way it was originally, and another book on how NOT to do it. I would hope the entire first chapter would deal with NOT sanding the bare glass, especially in areas like the hood trough or the louvers on a 63-67 car. Once that texture is gone, it's gone forever.

The next original paint car you see, look at the rough grinder scars on the edges of both doors, the grinder scars under the front lower panel below the grille and many other areas around the car.

Over the last 25 years, the chassis restoration process has come forward and we've all learned a lot but as far as body and paint, I see little change from the days of NCCC where the paint and body are perfect. It just wasn't at all that way. If ya want a Mercedes, buy a mercedes but please don't destroy any more Corvettes. The next owner may want to restore it properly.

Michael

[Joe C.]

4 Layers Of Paint

That's right. There were 4 (four) layers of paint on my car before restoration. I also had to replace some body panels with reproduction parts. ALL ORIGINAL PANELS DID NOT BLISTER. All of the reproduction parts did, after about 6 months of heat and humidity.
Here's how I stripped my paint. After removing panels to be replaced, I still had about 3/4 of the original body remaining. I used a razor blade to get as much as I could (probably 90%). It is really quite easy, maybe fun, once you get rolling. The paint just flys off, tiny slivers going all over the place, but it's FAST, and does no damage once you get the knack. Next, I used Cap'n Lees to get the remaining paint. Scrubbed off all with Scotch Brite. Rinsed, rerinsed, re-re-re rinsed thoroughly with Scotch Brite and copious amounts of lacquer thinner. Got every ounce of everything off, including the red oxide, right down to bare glass.

Joe

[Chuck S.]

Re: mid year paint strip

Michael, I also wondered how much of the fiberglass "character" was lost in sanding off the primer, but decided that sanding the primer was the least of the evils if you have to strip several layers of paint off a car. I knew that lacquer thinner would remove paint, but it never occurred to me to use it to completely strip the car.

If you use a "soft pad" rather than a block, you can probably preserve the "long wave" character but you'll still lose the fibered texture and small details you were discussing. Sharp edges and corners are going to take special care in any event. If you can see fibered texture, then that was probably was the result of inadequate paint coverage...In that case, I would have to assume that maybe I got one out of five, or one out of ten, or one out of a hundred (or some such percentage) that got better coverage.

A concern I have with using lacquer thinner to strip paint is (1) fiberglass will absorb lacquer thinner, and prolonged exposure will actually soften it, and, (2) lacquer thinner is not much more effective on the red-oxide primer than stripper. The net result is that your fiberglass is going to be seeing a lot of liquid lacquer thinner before you get to bare glass. A quick wipe with a damp towel to clean up the stripper residue is quite a bit different than trying to keep the surface wet with thinner to soften the paint. I would think it would be risky to paint a car stripped with lacquer thinner until it had a chance to air out for several months.

How much lacquer thinner does it take to strip a Corvette anyway? Ten gallons?

[Chuck S.]

P.S. Don't Worry...

About ruining the fiberglass character so the next "restorer" can't do a proper restoration...half the guys tearing apart old Corvettes don't even own the AIM. Fiberglass character may only be the start of things permanently wrong and uncorrectable on five out of ten restored cars.

[Michael H.]

Re: mid year paint strip

Hi Chuck,

I always used something called "Formula A" paint stripper on the color. It worked very well and also tends to soften the base primer coat. A second application of stripper and some of the primer would be coming off so the lacquer thinner wash worked quite well at the end. I've done many cars this way and never had any problems but it's possible that I was just lucky because I never painted one soon after the stripping operation.

I don't think it ever caused any loss of character or texture in the glass as it looked exactly the same as it did before the strip and repaint. All of the grinder scars and fiberglas texture that showed in the original came right back in the new paint, just like it was supposed too.

I've managed to almost exactly duplicate the factory paint look and most of the research went into learning how to remove the old material without disturbing the character of it.

As for the texture in the louver area, I've seen a lot of original paint 63-67's in my life and I can't remember even one that ever had what looked like smooth glass under the paint, especially 65-67. With Bloomington right around the corner, hopefully there will be a few original paint low mileage cars to look at and I'm sure if people get right down at louver level and look, they'll clearly see the texture I'm talking about. It's not difficult to see, in fact it can be felt of you run your fingers over it. Another good area with the same texture as the louvers would be areas in the door jambs. Much of that was the same. The glass wasn't ever sanded and neither was the primer. The texture is outstanding.

The unfortunate part of all this is that the number of original paint cars is reduced every day and soon it will be to the point where there won't be any available to see. The restoration of these cars has taken off and is now in high gear so we all need to learn as much as possible before the species is extinct. I wish someone would have a class at one of the events because it's so difficult to explain this in words. You just have to see it to realize how far off the typical restoration paint is from correct original. I have (somewhere) a great pic of a 1500 mile 65 that was taken while the car was on a hoist and because the camera is looking slightly up at the body, every detail of the "non sanded" body and primer below the body line shows perfectly. It's amazing that GM let these cars out that way but the truth is, when viewed from above, it's not noticable. I'll send the pic to you if interested. I know it's here somewhere close.

Michael

[Chuck S.]

Re: mid year paint strip

The unfortunate part of all this is that the number of original paint cars is reduced every day...we all need to learn as much as possible before the species is extinct. I wish someone would have a class at one of the events because it's so difficult to explain this in words.

Michael, that is an excellent idea. It would be very educational to have someone do a presentation that explained specific examples of typical factory paint, and how to duplicate typical factory finishes. You would need two or three original paint cars for demonstration purposes, because photos don't get the job done in my experience.

You don't see too many typical factory paint jobs on the judging field, but I believe many would be interested in such a presentation, if only from an historic viewpoint.

[Jack J.]

Re: mid year paint strip

Chuck, again I want to reply, after being vindicated by Michael's earlier post. After 27 years of my car sitting undriven in a garage, I'm obviously not in a hurry to get it painted since I'm doing a body off restoration. I started to strip the car last Summer, and only resumed the process again this Spring. Only the hood and rear exhaust panel which are not attached to the car are left to strip since I have now moved on to getting the body free from the frame which is where it is now. I worked in only a very small area at a time and was constantly wiping the residue away with a rag. The removal process cut through the 1 layer?? of lacquer and 5 layers of alternating colored primer(overkill). I don't feel the glass was saturated with thinner and again it will be quite awhile before it will be painted. I can only suggest to anyone contemplating stripping by themselves with this method to first try it on the removed rear exhaust panel and then decide if it is worth the time and effort. I probably used about 10 gallons but I feel the price ($10/gallon) is cheap.

[Michael H.]

Re: mid year paint strip

Chuck,

I found one of the pictures I mentioned in the earlier post. It's not the exact one I was looking for that shows the inside of the louvers but it is still quite interesting. It's taken with the car on a lift and the way the light reflects off the paint, you can see just exactly how much body work was done below the mid body line. NONE. There's a well defined bump where the front fender skirt is bonded to the louver panel and the whole panel is quite wavy. The paint is quite textured which would hide 95% of these problems when viewed from the conventional angle but from this angle it certainly is obvious. I was going to post the pic but I'm not sure if anyone else is interested so I could just send it to you if you send me your email address.

Michael

[Harmon C.]

Re: 4 Layers Of Paint

I have had a local plastic media blaster do two Corvettes. He left the original primer on most of the car and it was very smooth not rough. In areas that were patched it tore up the junk but I would have removed it anyway. I think the skill of the blaster is the key. Blasting even a body on a dolly that is empty it is hard to get rid of the media as it is in every crack. Lyle

[Dick W.]

Re: 4 Layers Of Paint

As Lyle has, I have had several (5+) cars done with media blasting with good results. Each car was a little better that the previous. The level of skill improved over time. If I was to do a car today, I would not hesitate to use media blasting. I have stripped cars using laquer removing solvent ( do your liver a favor and stay away from this, it has known cancer causing ingredients), Capt'n Lee's stripper, lacquer with rags, you name it.

The down side of blasting is cleaning the media out of all the nooks and crannies. I good vacuum, air hose, and finall a good wash with a water hose works very well.

[Mike Cobine]

Re: mid year paint strip

Post the picture. It is always good to see.

thanks.

[Michael H.]

Re: mid year paint strip *NM*

[Michael H.]

Re: mid year paint strip

Mike,

The pic didn't come out very well and a lot of the detail was lost so later today, I'll rescan and repost. Even at the poor quality, you can still clearly see that no sanding was done below the mid body line. The reflections in the paint show that. The texture is rough and the area where the front wheel house bonds to the louver panel shows a distinct vertical line. This was, for all practical purposes, a brand new car.

Michael

[John H.]

Re: mid year paint strip

Great stuff, Michael - good old "bond burn"